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Post by vjaska on Dec 15, 2015 0:07:36 GMT
They've got no argument at all - the C11 uses the road already and at a higher frequency than out of service 139's so what's the issue. If they don't like it, move out - after all, they've got the cash to do so. Posh people and the wealthy shouldn't be allowed to dictate the workings of a bus network. Furthermore, having gone down Mill Lane on the C11 in the past and having just looked along the entire road on Streetview, the residents are exaggerating a bit - a lot of the road is as wide as Beulah Hill and I've seen deckers negotiate much narrower roads without issues. Who wants empty buses up and down their road all day? The C11 is at least performing a useful function. Dead running happens, it's a part of running most bus services. I've out of service 201's run past my house on their way back to BC yet no one in my area gives two hoots. |
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Post by sid on Dec 15, 2015 0:34:58 GMT
Who wants empty buses up and down their road all day? The C11 is at least performing a useful function. Dead running happens, it's a part of running most bus services. I've out of service 201's run past my house on their way back to BC yet no one in my area gives two hoots. Well it depends on circumstances and I'm sure these people will be very much in favour of the Finchley Road scheme it it resurfaces. It's not just a Hampstead thing, there is a bus restriction in Park Hall Road in West Dulwich to prevent buses using it to and from Norwood Garage and Whitehall Road in Thornton Heath was made one way to prevent buses using it as a short cut to TH, I'm sure there must be other examples as well. |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 15, 2015 0:59:47 GMT
What is everyone's view on garage runs and do you think they should be reintroduced I was doing some research on them recently and how they used to work and im quite interested to see others views on them. Generally more trouble than they are worth quite honestly. I honestly cant see garage runs happening again. Over the past 20 years there has been more route standardisation. After around 2000 it got worst, dropping all routes that had A, B, C etc i.e 97A becoming 357, many route extensions during peak hours etc or weekend dropped. N prefix Night Buses becoming 24hour if it was the same as day bus etc. Also we have had that most buses go from end to end of roué for almost all of the day, where years ago, peak buses used to start mid way on route or not always go to the end of route. There are only small variations of this now on the 25 and 38. You now even don't have as much routes that dead run to garages for driver changeovers. You may still get some, but it isn't that much, they would rather use ferry vehicles or public transport to minimize on tender costs. I have seen people wait for example and N55 in the daytime to go to Woodford Wells in places like Clapton or Lea Bridge Road and wonder why the bus isn't coming.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 15, 2015 1:40:26 GMT
Dead running happens, it's a part of running most bus services. I've out of service 201's run past my house on their way back to BC yet no one in my area gives two hoots. Well it depends on circumstances and I'm sure these people will be very much in favour of the Finchley Road scheme it it resurfaces. It's not just a Hampstead thing, there is a bus restriction in Park Hall Road in West Dulwich to prevent buses using it to and from Norwood Garage and Whitehall Road in Thornton Heath was made one way to prevent buses using it as a short cut to TH, I'm sure there must be other examples as well. The restriction on Park Hall Road doesn't do a good job of restricting buses running along there as 417's have run light along there for years. Whether there are other examples or not, I don't agree with restricting buses from suitable roads whether they run in service or out of service - if they don't like it, move elsewhere. It's this sort of nonsense from local residents why car usage isn't falling and people wonder why the environment is screwed. |
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Post by M1104 on Dec 15, 2015 8:58:50 GMT
Dead running happens, it's a part of running most bus services. I've out of service 201's run past my house on their way back to BC yet no one in my area gives two hoots. Well it depends on circumstances and I'm sure these people will be very much in favour of the Finchley Road scheme it it resurfaces. It's not just a Hampstead thing, there is a bus restriction in Park Hall Road in West Dulwich to prevent buses using it to and from Norwood Garage and Whitehall Road in Thornton Heath was made one way to prevent buses using it as a short cut to TH, I'm sure there must be other examples as well. Windmill Road in Mitcham Common has a width restriction with in theory* buses and other large vehicles can't use. However there's dispensation for the 463 and light running 152 buses. * - buses can physically squeeze through |
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Post by sid on Dec 15, 2015 9:13:30 GMT
Well it depends on circumstances and I'm sure these people will be very much in favour of the Finchley Road scheme it it resurfaces. It's not just a Hampstead thing, there is a bus restriction in Park Hall Road in West Dulwich to prevent buses using it to and from Norwood Garage and Whitehall Road in Thornton Heath was made one way to prevent buses using it as a short cut to TH, I'm sure there must be other examples as well. The restriction on Park Hall Road doesn't do a good job of restricting buses running along there as 417's have run light along there for years. Whether there are other examples or not, I don't agree with restricting buses from suitable roads whether they run in service or out of service - if they don't like it, move elsewhere. It's this sort of nonsense from local residents why car usage isn't falling and people wonder why the environment is screwed. Whilst some of these residential issues are ridiculous (the 316 being restricted to single deckers for example) obviously we live in a democracy and it's only right that each case is judged on its own merits. |
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Post by sid on Dec 15, 2015 9:17:53 GMT
Generally more trouble than they are worth quite honestly. I honestly cant see garage runs happening again. Over the past 20 years there has been more route standardisation. After around 2000 it got worst, dropping all routes that had A, B, C etc i.e 97A becoming 357, many route extensions during peak hours etc or weekend dropped. N prefix Night Buses becoming 24hour if it was the same as day bus etc. Also we have had that most buses go from end to end of roué for almost all of the day, where years ago, peak buses used to start mid way on route or not always go to the end of route. There are only small variations of this now on the 25 and 38. You now even don't have as much routes that dead run to garages for driver changeovers. You may still get some, but it isn't that much, they would rather use ferry vehicles or public transport to minimize on tender costs. I have seen people wait for example and N55 in the daytime to go to Woodford Wells in places like Clapton or Lea Bridge Road and wonder why the bus isn't coming.
Exactly that and I've seen people waiting at bus stops on a Sunday for a Mon-Sat route and no doubt there will be people waiting at bus stops on Christmas Day! In most cases garage runs are more trouble than they're worth but there are a few that could run in service such as the aforementioned 139. |
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Post by snoggle on Dec 15, 2015 14:01:07 GMT
I have seen people wait for example and N55 in the daytime to go to Woodford Wells in places like Clapton or Lea Bridge Road and wonder why the bus isn't coming. Yes but that's because people spend 2 nanoseconds looking at the map or timetable and only focus on the bit they want to see.  They don't bother to check that the map says "Night Buses" at the top or that the times on the timetable say 0130 or such like. I've only ever had one person say "yes I know it's a night bus" when I've seen people looking at maps or timetables and then appearing to be expecting the bus to come and I've said "you do know that's a night bus?". That person was in West Norwood of all places. Everywhere else they go "oh really. I was hoping for a bus now. How do I get to "x"?" A recurring theme in E17 is people from Stoke Newington house hunting at weekends and then thinking they've got an all day N73 bus back to Stokey. Only at nights luvvies.   I could forgive people if TfL put up really useless timetables and maps but generally they don't do so and the relevant info is there for people to read. People just need to invest a bit more time. |
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djs76
Conductor
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Post by djs76 on Jun 3, 2020 14:11:48 GMT
One of the strangest garage journeys used to be on route 191 years ago when it originally operated from E. Buses would cover the whole route from Edmonton Green to Brimsdown Station and then continue in service via the 307 to the garage which it already passed on the journey. I think the blind display was Brimsdown Station & Enfield Garage. Buses also operated in the opposite direction, starting from the garage.
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Post by psergeiv on Jun 3, 2020 15:53:12 GMT
Currently there are multiple garage journeys on route 237 to/from White City and to/from Hounslow.
There is a trip on the 282 that runs from Greenford to Mount Vernon Hospital. Used to be morning trips between Greenford Garage and Ealing Hospital; not any more.
Not true garage journeys, but close:
The first few trips on route 226 start from Hanger Lane towards Golders Green.
The last few trips on the 226 run from Golders Green to Hanger Lane.
A few morning trips on route 186 start from Wealdstone (Montrose Road) towards Brent Cross and from Edgware to Northwick Park.
There are also starting/ending short trips on some night routes (e.g. N9, N26 etc.).
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 3, 2020 16:16:55 GMT
One of the strangest garage journeys used to be on route 191 years ago when it originally operated from E. Buses would cover the whole route from Edmonton Green to Brimsdown Station and then continue in service via the 307 to the garage which it already passed on the journey. I think the blind display was Brimsdown Station & Enfield Garage. Buses also operated in the opposite direction, starting from the garage. The 140, when it used to run between Mill Hill and Heathrow Airport but was operated by HD (Harrow Weald), had an interesting set of garage journeys. Going towards Hayes or Heathrow Airport was straightforward, buses operated via Wealdstone and joined and left line of route in Harrow Town Centre. Journeys towards Mill Hill were more complicated. Some ran via Wealdstone and Station Road, joining line of route at Sheepcote Road and operating via Kenton. However others swung left at Harrow & Wealdstone Station and operated via Christchurch Avenue, joining and leaving line of route at Kenton Library. These journeys displayed "via Christchurch Avenue" as part of the ultimate destination. At one time there was even a journey that operated from Harrow Weald to Mill Hill East Station, in the days when a couple of morning and afternoon journeys were extended to and from Mill Hill East for schoolchildren. On-the-road reliefs took place at Harrow-on-the-Hill Station. If a crew were taking a bus on an unscheduled working to or from the Garage (usually due to a staff cut), they would operate out of service via Harrow View and Long Elmes. Also, when Hendon (AE) had a small Sunday allocation on the 140, garage journeys operated between AE and Mill Hill Broadway in service. |
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Post by george on Jun 3, 2020 16:22:45 GMT
Currently there are multiple garage journeys on route 237 to/from White City and to/from Hounslow. There is a trip on the 282 that runs from Greenford to Mount Vernon Hospital. Used to be morning trips between Greenford Garage and Ealing Hospital; not any more. Not true garage journeys, but close: The first few trips on route 226 start from Hanger Lane towards Golders Green. The last few trips on the 226 run from Golders Green to Hanger Lane. A few morning trips on route 186 start from Wealdstone (Montrose Road) towards Brent Cross and from Edgware to Northwick Park. There are also starting/ending short trips on some night routes (e.g. N9, N26 etc.). The R70 and 43 also have timetabled garage journeys. |
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Post by wirewiper on Jun 3, 2020 16:25:32 GMT
Some sections of route which used to be "garage journeys only" but now operate full time:
Route 6 between Kensal Rise Station and AC (Willesden). At the other end buses passed Hackney and latterly Ash Grove Garages so would display those if terminating there.
Route 8 between Old Ford (there was a stand and crew restroom in Ruston Street) and Bow Church. At the other end buses passed AC and most terminated there anyway.
Route 23 between Ladbroke Grove and X (Westbourne Park).
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Post by psergeiv on Jun 3, 2020 18:33:40 GMT
The R70 and 43 also have timetabled garage journeys. Thanks for this. The 43 is quite similar to the 237. Some garage trips are even scheduled mid-day. It looks like in service garage journeys are predominantly done by Metroline (43, 186, 226, 237, 282). |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2020 19:21:09 GMT
One of my early memories of garage journeys was the 8 running to the old WH garage on Sundays via Plaistow high street. Also the 147 extending from Ilford to Seven Kings garage.
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They don't bother to check that the map says "Night Buses" at the top or that the times on the timetable say 0130 or such like. I've only ever had one person say "yes I know it's a night bus" when I've seen people looking at maps or timetables and then appearing to be expecting the bus to come and I've said "you do know that's a night bus?". That person was in West Norwood of all places. Everywhere else they go "oh really. I was hoping for a bus now. How do I get to "x"?" A recurring theme in E17 is people from Stoke Newington house hunting at weekends and then thinking they've got an all day N73 bus back to Stokey. Only at nights luvvies. 
