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Post by snowman on Dec 13, 2015 8:15:52 GMT
The recent tender award increased the pvr by 3 from next July, but now an even bigger revelation has come out in a planning application for a school in North Kingston which goes before a Kingston Council meeting on Thursday. Quote : The frequency of the route 65 has already been increased in the peaks to 11 buses per hour from 9 buses per hour. Transport for London have confirmed that the capacity of the bus route 65 will be increased by an additional 10 buses per hour before the second year intake. Currently Transport for London is receiving complaints regarding route 371 and therefore Transport for London will also be looking into increasing the capacity of this route. This is taken directly from paragraph 51 on page A17. Kingston Academy council link The school opened this September (in temporary huts), the second year intake starts in September 2016 Would an additional 10 buses per hour be 5 each direction, thus increasing frequency from 11 to 16, or does it mean frequency goes up from 11 to 21 per hour Does the final part of TfLs confirmation mean more double decking of 371 could happen ? My thoughts are will this be the whole route, or just say Kingston to Richmond, and just at school times. Could it be a bad TfL wording and what they really mean is they will project another bus route over this section of 65 to increase the frequency (for example a school time extension of 71 to Ham or Richmond) to provide the extra 10 buses per hour. Would like to know what others think as I have never seen a confirmation announcement like it before. joking aside, would that WF streetlite be suitable... doh !
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Post by planesandtrains on Dec 13, 2015 8:35:24 GMT
Personally I think that there needs to be another separate route that runs down the same corridor- its not usually Ham and Richmond that has the traffic problems but the area but the likes of Ealing and Chiswick. So when it does go wrong (which is unfortunately very often)there are huge delays and gaps. That Streetlite on the other hand would defiantly suit the 65 and would solve all rush hour problems
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Post by snoggle on Dec 13, 2015 11:13:35 GMT
I struggle to believe that the 65 would receive that scale of increase in capacity. That's an enormous number of vehicles when all we are talking about is coping with a school flow, large though that is. I know school routes are very expensive but surely some targeted extra resource over the relevant links is a better solution?
I also agree with the previous comment that the 65 gets hammered in other places and that it may be more sensible to extend another route on from Richmond to give access to this school. The 65 may warrant a bit of resource to make it run reliably but anything trying to get through Kew Bridge in the peaks is going to have problems.
I don't think there is a clear commitment to double decking the 371 in that document. It's just a "we'll have a look" commitment but surely TfL know how busy the 371 is? I don't use it very much but I did a few months ago and it was heaving. The telling question is what TfL asked for in the recent retendering and whether a priced all double deck option was provided by bidders. If it was then TfL at least have a clue about the costs of double decking if that's their next step.
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Route 65
Dec 13, 2015 12:18:05 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Dec 13, 2015 12:18:05 GMT
A while ago in the South West London topic, I suggested this as a way of helping the 65 out as its ridiculously busy along the entire route:
475: New route from New Malden to Richmond via the 131 to Kingston and the 65 to Richmond. This provides welcome relief to the 65 as it's an extremely busy route but one which seems to need help. It also provides a cross Kingston link linking Richmond & Ham with Kingston Hospital & New Malden.
495: New route from Sheen to Acton via the 33/337/493 to Richmond, the 65 to Ealing Broadway and the 207/427/607 to Acton. Like the above, it provides relief to the 65 and provides a cross Richmond link linking the Upper Richmond Road area with Kew, Brentford, Ealing & Acton. It also helps out the 33, 337 & 493 especially as the 33 can't use deckers on a full time basis and the 493 is unlikely to gain any deckers leaving the 337 to take the strain.
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Post by planesandtrains on Dec 13, 2015 16:48:20 GMT
A while ago in the South West London topic, I suggested this as a way of helping the 65 out as its ridiculously busy along the entire route: 475: New route from New Malden to Richmond via the 131 to Kingston and the 65 to Richmond. This provides welcome relief to the 65 as it's an extremely busy route but one which seems to need help. It also provides a cross Kingston link linking Richmond & Ham with Kingston Hospital & New Malden. 495: New route from Sheen to Acton via the 33/337/493 to Richmond, the 65 to Ealing Broadway and the 207/427/607 to Acton. Like the above, it provides relief to the 65 and provides a cross Richmond link linking the Upper Richmond Road area with Kew, Brentford, Ealing & Acton. It also helps out the 33, 337 & 493 especially as the 33 can't use deckers on a full time basis and the 493 is unlikely to gain any deckers leaving the 337 to take the strain. The 33 can't use deckers at all, unless TFL want a swifter way of demolishing Hammersmith Bridge.
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Route 65
Dec 13, 2015 17:36:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 17:36:45 GMT
Hammersmith bridge can't be demolished as it's a listed building. That's why the plan is to close it next spring for a year in order to strengthen it at tfl request with them part funding it to enable bus route conversion to double deck buses on some routes that run from Barnes over the bridge into hammersmith.
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Route 65
Dec 13, 2015 18:05:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on Dec 13, 2015 18:05:50 GMT
A while ago in the South West London topic, I suggested this as a way of helping the 65 out as its ridiculously busy along the entire route: 475: New route from New Malden to Richmond via the 131 to Kingston and the 65 to Richmond. This provides welcome relief to the 65 as it's an extremely busy route but one which seems to need help. It also provides a cross Kingston link linking Richmond & Ham with Kingston Hospital & New Malden. 495: New route from Sheen to Acton via the 33/337/493 to Richmond, the 65 to Ealing Broadway and the 207/427/607 to Acton. Like the above, it provides relief to the 65 and provides a cross Richmond link linking the Upper Richmond Road area with Kew, Brentford, Ealing & Acton. It also helps out the 33, 337 & 493 especially as the 33 can't use deckers on a full time basis and the 493 is unlikely to gain any deckers leaving the 337 to take the strain. The 33 can't use deckers at all, unless TFL want a swifter way of demolishing Hammersmith Bridge. The 33 can use deckers and has done between Barnes & Fulwell as I've seen them myself. Obviously, they can't run onto Hammersmith but the route has seen deckers in the last few years. Anyway, that doesn't affect my proposal lol.
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Post by southlondonbus on Dec 13, 2015 18:30:34 GMT
Not sure if north of Richmond could cope but maybe a slight freq reduction on the 65 and extend another route from Kingston to Richmond. 71 would be obvious but maybe to frequent or keep the 65 freq as it is and extend the 406 or 418 to give another 3 DDs an hour between Richmond and Kingston.
If hammersmith brige did get strengthened then the 33 could convert an maybe drop 1 bus an hour and the 72 could convert and revert to its old freq without the need for the possible 239. I doubt the 9 would be reextended to Mortlake but the 209 could run say every 8 mins with DD and with less buses needed could be extended to Shephards Bush maybe to tie in with a freq reduction on the 72.
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Post by rmz19 on Dec 13, 2015 18:43:11 GMT
I always witness the 65 heaving between Kingston and Richmond, extending the 71 to Richmond would help alleviate overcrowding on the 65. Even though the 371 exists it doesn't significantly help the 65, although to be fair this isn't the sole purpose of its existence. As a result of the 71 extension this may see a decrease in the 371's patronage, to combat this the 371 could be given a useful extension to Chiswick via Kew Road. That way the 65 would receive plenty of help along its entire route.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 20:36:11 GMT
A unique thing with the 65 is that over it's whole route, no other route particularly helps out. You wouldn't catch a 371 to Richmond from Kingston if it came along 1st.
Traffic is horrendous across all these areas anyway, and when an incident happens, gridlock ensues.
I fear whatever you do, more buses , new routes, nothing would change
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Post by John tuthill on Dec 13, 2015 21:25:49 GMT
A unique thing with the 65 is that over it's whole route, no other route particularly helps out. You wouldn't catch a 371 to Richmond from Kingston if it came along 1st. Traffic is horrendous across all these areas anyway, and when an incident happens, gridlock ensues. I fear whatever you do, more buses , new routes, nothing would change I'm sure with all the technology available, the powers that be could establish the 'two points' with the maximum of passenger traffic?
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Route 65
Dec 15, 2015 13:22:04 GMT
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T.R. likes this
Post by snowman on Dec 15, 2015 13:22:04 GMT
Thanks for the thoughts. Looks like no-one really knows how TfL can send a confirmation to a developer (of the free school) that frequency will be increased by 10 buses per hour from Sept 2016
It seems like a private deal was done without consultation, wonder if a fee was involved.
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