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Post by Lukeo on Oct 6, 2016 22:10:48 GMT
Again it dosent help that buses have no via points. If it pulled in with say Wembley and Alperton on the front and via Wembley on the side would no doubt have made people in Harrow more aware. I've known people to get on a bus because the side blind said 'via x' because they think it'll take them to x, not realising it has already passed that part of the route. I think the destination is the right thing to be shown. -- As for the 483, I did see one leave Harrow bus station with quite a lot of people on board off-peak about 2 weeks ago. I'm not sure if there was just maybe a long wait for that bus, but it does seem that more people are using the route now. As for a H14 extension, that's something I've always thought about. The main reason is because I would simply like to see the H14 return to double decker operation, and an extension would definitely make that far more likely to happen. Having said that, despite it being such a short route it does have reliability issues pretty much daily, mainly during peak hours, and so that puts me off wanting any extension to it.
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Post by John tuthill on Oct 6, 2016 22:27:16 GMT
Again it dosent help that buses have no via points. If it pulled in with say Wembley and Alperton on the front and via Wembley on the side would no doubt have made people in Harrow more aware. Happier days Photo from Ian Armstrong's bus page Attachment Deleted
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 6, 2016 23:29:36 GMT
This may not be worth mentioning, but I'll mention it anyway The 483 is significantly longer than the 83 regarding their routes. The 483 is 'apparently' 11 miles and has a running time of 41-85 mins whereas the 83 is less, and certainly much less than it used to be at only 8 miles and 34-71 mins, running times courtesy of 'londonbusroutes'. However, upon tracing the 483's route it's actually approximately 10 miles in length, therefore the extra mile might be an error on the website. Additionally, the 83's stated current running time is questionable as 34 mins is too low a minimum despite the route's curtailment. It's probably safe to say the 483 'stole' the 83's glory Although it's for the better as the latter should be more reliable now.
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Post by ibus246 on Oct 7, 2016 2:14:29 GMT
Possibly, but I have to say I like the lack of via points on the buses. People should read the maps and timetables provided at bus stops for this as is their responsibility. On the tube I always get asked if there are more trains/when is the next train when I'm tipping out but all they have to do is look at the timetables, there is little excuse. I know that "if people don't know if a bus exists why would they check for timetables" argument exists but I think the publicity should be in bus stop frames (where practicable) and certainly prevalent in bus stations. For example I haven't seen Harrow bus station recently but still only a few boarders while the 182 remains packed suggests a distinct lack of advertising (although I'm sure there are spider maps available? Are they up to date? I don't think you can blame the public for not knowing about the 483 when it has taken TfL over 3 weeks to update its own website to show the route's details and live departure info at stops. I've just looked and nearly fell off my chair when the website actually recognised the route number and displayed the route details and stop list. If people rely on that website, and why shouldn't they?, and it doesn't recognise the route number they've every right to wonder what the heck is going on. It is TfL's decision to shift so much of its information flow on to digital platforms and then it can't manage them properly. Not the passenger's fault. Now TfL can be bothered to provide some up to date info about the 483 then perhaps people stand a chance of using the service with some degree of confidence? The online spider maps are not up to date so that's another info source which is at odds with reality. Ditto the quadrant maps although their update cycle is very long but TfL could easily add a note to the relevant page listing the routes that have changed but, of course, they don't do that either. This is all simple enough stuff but it simply is not done. 2 days away from West Croydon bus station reopening and no online info about that either. Anyone seen anything at stops in Croydon or on the I-Bus displays on buses serving Croydon? Nothing at all at stops or iBus about WCB - noted on countdown Thant the 450's frequency increase was being advertised however.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2016 13:20:14 GMT
Possibly, but I have to say I like the lack of via points on the buses. People should read the maps and timetables provided at bus stops for this as is their responsibility. On the tube I always get asked if there are more trains/when is the next train when I'm tipping out but all they have to do is look at the timetables, there is little excuse. I know that "if people don't know if a bus exists why would they check for timetables" argument exists but I think the publicity should be in bus stop frames (where practicable) and certainly prevalent in bus stations. For example I haven't seen Harrow bus station recently but still only a few boarders while the 182 remains packed suggests a distinct lack of advertising (although I'm sure there are spider maps available? Are they up to date? I don't think you can blame the public for not knowing about the 483 when it has taken TfL over 3 weeks to update its own website to show the route's details and live departure info at stops. I've just looked and nearly fell off my chair when the website actually recognised the route number and displayed the route details and stop list. If people rely on that website, and why shouldn't they?, and it doesn't recognise the route number they've every right to wonder what the heck is going on. It is TfL's decision to shift so much of its information flow on to digital platforms and then it can't manage them properly. Not the passenger's fault. Now TfL can be bothered to provide some up to date info about the 483 then perhaps people stand a chance of using the service with some degree of confidence? The online spider maps are not up to date so that's another info source which is at odds with reality. Ditto the quadrant maps although their update cycle is very long but TfL could easily add a note to the relevant page listing the routes that have changed but, of course, they don't do that either. This is all simple enough stuff but it simply is not done. 2 days away from West Croydon bus station reopening and no online info about that either. Anyone seen anything at stops in Croydon or on the I-Bus displays on buses serving Croydon? Your points are valid for customers who rely on data but with bus services changing all the time in London the information is (or should be) there at places like bus stations when things change. In my reference to HBS the passengers still have a responsibility to look at the information provided, Im sure the signage was done on time for route intro.
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Post by Lukeo on Oct 7, 2016 15:13:04 GMT
I don't think you can blame the public for not knowing about the 483 when it has taken TfL over 3 weeks to update its own website to show the route's details and live departure info at stops. I've just looked and nearly fell off my chair when the website actually recognised the route number and displayed the route details and stop list. If people rely on that website, and why shouldn't they?, and it doesn't recognise the route number they've every right to wonder what the heck is going on. It is TfL's decision to shift so much of its information flow on to digital platforms and then it can't manage them properly. Not the passenger's fault. Now TfL can be bothered to provide some up to date info about the 483 then perhaps people stand a chance of using the service with some degree of confidence? The online spider maps are not up to date so that's another info source which is at odds with reality. Ditto the quadrant maps although their update cycle is very long but TfL could easily add a note to the relevant page listing the routes that have changed but, of course, they don't do that either. This is all simple enough stuff but it simply is not done. 2 days away from West Croydon bus station reopening and no online info about that either. Anyone seen anything at stops in Croydon or on the I-Bus displays on buses serving Croydon? Your points are valid for customers who rely on data but with bus services changing all the time in London the information is (or should be) there at places like bus stations when things change. In my reference to HBS the passengers still have a responsibility to look at the information provided, Im sure the signage was done on time for route intro. I was at Harrow Bus Station this morning and saw signage on the windows at Stop C regarding new route 483. Can't confirm how long the signage has been there though!
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Post by vjaska on Oct 7, 2016 18:13:38 GMT
I don't think you can blame the public for not knowing about the 483 when it has taken TfL over 3 weeks to update its own website to show the route's details and live departure info at stops. I've just looked and nearly fell off my chair when the website actually recognised the route number and displayed the route details and stop list. If people rely on that website, and why shouldn't they?, and it doesn't recognise the route number they've every right to wonder what the heck is going on. It is TfL's decision to shift so much of its information flow on to digital platforms and then it can't manage them properly. Not the passenger's fault. Now TfL can be bothered to provide some up to date info about the 483 then perhaps people stand a chance of using the service with some degree of confidence? The online spider maps are not up to date so that's another info source which is at odds with reality. Ditto the quadrant maps although their update cycle is very long but TfL could easily add a note to the relevant page listing the routes that have changed but, of course, they don't do that either. This is all simple enough stuff but it simply is not done. 2 days away from West Croydon bus station reopening and no online info about that either. Anyone seen anything at stops in Croydon or on the I-Bus displays on buses serving Croydon? Nothing at all at stops or iBus about WCB - noted on countdown Thant the 450's frequency increase was being advertised however. Both 450's I was on today had a scrolling message on their I-Bus screens about the re-opening of West Croydon Bus Station along with the 450's frequency increase - presumably they saw your post and it jolted their memory to stick it on the screen
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Post by COBO on Oct 7, 2016 20:40:18 GMT
Your points are valid for customers who rely on data but with bus services changing all the time in London the information is (or should be) there at places like bus stations when things change. In my reference to HBS the passengers still have a responsibility to look at the information provided, Im sure the signage was done on time for route intro. I was at Harrow Bus Station this morning and saw signage on the windows at Stop C regarding new route 483. Can't confirm how long the signage has been there though! It's been there since the route started.
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Post by enviroPB on Oct 8, 2016 16:06:41 GMT
This may not be worth mentioning, but I'll mention it anyway The 483 is significantly longer than the 83 regarding their routes. The 483 is 'apparently' 11 miles and has a running time of 41-85 mins whereas the 83 is less, and certainly much less than it used to be at only 8 miles and 34-71 mins, running times courtesy of 'londonbusroutes'. However, upon tracing the 483's route it's actually approximately 10 miles in length, therefore the extra mile might be an error on the website. Additionally, the 83's stated current running time is questionable as 34 mins is too low a minimum despite the route's curtailment. It's probably safe to say the 483 'stole' the 83's glory Although it's for the better as the latter should be more reliable now. Figures on londonbusroutes.net are the minimum and maximum journey times of any route; i.e. smallest journey time will be a late night/early morning run and the longest journey time will be found in the peak of the schedule. So 71 minutes is probably the longest peak journey on the 483. Also be careful when measuring routes for yourself. Routes can double-run, circumnavigate in a town centre, bus station, etc so you pretty much need that yard stick measurer that road surveyors use to be fully accurate!
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 8, 2016 23:05:08 GMT
This may not be worth mentioning, but I'll mention it anyway The 483 is significantly longer than the 83 regarding their routes. The 483 is 'apparently' 11 miles and has a running time of 41-85 mins whereas the 83 is less, and certainly much less than it used to be at only 8 miles and 34-71 mins, running times courtesy of 'londonbusroutes'. However, upon tracing the 483's route it's actually approximately 10 miles in length, therefore the extra mile might be an error on the website. Additionally, the 83's stated current running time is questionable as 34 mins is too low a minimum despite the route's curtailment. It's probably safe to say the 483 'stole' the 83's glory Although it's for the better as the latter should be more reliable now. Figures on londonbusroutes.net are the minimum and maximum journey times of any route; i.e. smallest journey time will be a late night/early morning run and the longest journey time will be found in the peak of the schedule. So 71 minutes is probably the longest peak journey on the 483. Also be careful when measuring routes for yourself. Routes can double-run, circumnavigate in a town centre, bus station, etc so you pretty much need that yard stick measurer that road surveyors use to be fully accurate! Actually 71 mins is the maximum running time on the 83, whereas on the 483 it's 85 mins, which both sound right It's the 34 mins minimum on the 83 that I'm sceptical about, it just seems too low. I agree regarding meticulous measurement, as far as I'm aware the 483 does not circumnavigate anywhere neither does it double-run, but I might be wrong.
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Post by vjaska on Oct 8, 2016 23:32:53 GMT
Figures on londonbusroutes.net are the minimum and maximum journey times of any route; i.e. smallest journey time will be a late night/early morning run and the longest journey time will be found in the peak of the schedule. So 71 minutes is probably the longest peak journey on the 483. Also be careful when measuring routes for yourself. Routes can double-run, circumnavigate in a town centre, bus station, etc so you pretty much need that yard stick measurer that road surveyors use to be fully accurate! Actually 71 mins is the maximum running time on the 83, whereas on the 483 it's 85 mins, which both sound right It's the 34 mins minimum on the 83 that I'm sceptical about, it just seems too low. I agree regarding meticulous measurement, as far as I'm aware the 483 does not circumnavigate anywhere neither does it double-run, but I might be wrong. Upon leaving Ealing Hospital, Harrow bound 483's do a short double run along Uxbridge Road in order to serve a particular bus stop by using a gap in the central reservation. The 83 also did this double run when it ran from the hospital
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Post by COBO on Oct 17, 2016 13:41:19 GMT
When a Harrow bound 483 reaches Alperton the IBUS now says "Alperton Station for the 83 to Golders Green."
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Post by snoggle on Oct 17, 2016 14:51:36 GMT
When a Harrow bound 483 reaches Alperton the IBUS now says "Alperton Station for the 83 to Golders Green." Oh dear, do people still want a through service from West of Alperton to East of Wembley?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2016 14:55:38 GMT
When a Harrow bound 483 reaches Alperton the IBUS now says "Alperton Station for the 83 to Golders Green." Oh dear, do people still want a through service from West of Alperton to East of Wembley? Do TfL care? I'm surprised they made the effort of updating that but no mention of the hopper fare at that point. I'm betting people travel from somewhere like Hanwell to Wembley before changing and by that point the hopper isn't valid! 😂
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Post by COBO on Oct 17, 2016 15:15:24 GMT
Despite the chop the 83 still gets very busy. The 483 seems to be getting more passengers between Wembley Stadium and Harrow.
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