|
Post by Alex on Jan 26, 2016 23:51:51 GMT
I know Alex probably won't like me saying this But any routes they travel via Woolwich, Plumstead, and Thamesmead get my nomination. Which includes routes 51, 53, 96, 99, 122, 161, 177, 180, 401, 469, 472 and many many more.. Hey Nathan (that tag thing is cool by the way - now I've got to figure out how to do it), I don't mind at all - in fact I was thinking of posting something on the PD patch on here but didn't in case it caused upset, or anyone thinking I was 'bigging up' (if you see what I mean, there's lots of people in rougher areas who tend to do this) my local area...... The most stark bit of this area has got to be Yarnton Way - I was gonna suggest bits of the 180 (such as Yarnton, and bits of Abbey Wood) but this route is balanced out by serving places as Greenwich Town Centre and the trunk road through Charlton. Plumstead itself is a pretty poor area of London. When we had work going on next door (for a few months, a chap with his friends doing his house up to put on rent) there were people in suits knocking on doors. Not sure what they were selling/asking for. All I heard was him saying to them "well, good luck to you, you're in one of the poorest areas of London and you're asking for stuff on doors - I wouldn't have the conscience to do it" 177 has the hallmarks of a rough route - it links Thamesmead with Peckham (!) going though New Cross, Deptford Bridge, Charlton, Woolwich, Plumstead and Abbey Wood - strangely, I have never seen any grief on it, and I'm a very regular user of this bus. I think 'Steve 09' is the expert on the PD routes, but from my perspective, the 177 is a good route to use. I wouldn't have said the 51 was a deprived route - it mainly serves semi-detached land. 122 has a lot of affluent areas on it too. 96 seems quite a 'chav' route (apologies for using this, but it's want of a better description). 99 goes through Slade Green - say no more. The first time I went through there on my bike about three years ago there were kids in the streets throwing bottles everywhere and walking around with planks of wood , I also read on here a few years ago that the 89 drivers had all their stand time at Lewisham with only two mins stand at Slade Green just to keep them out of the area. I think this has changed now but I certainly remember Egg or LC1 posting it. SE London buses are a strange one to work out. After a very late shift, my route home is an N9 from West London, then a (N)53. Now, a night route doing Elephant, Old Kent Road, New Cross, Deptford Bridge, Charlton, Woolwich again has the hallmarks of a bad run. On the other hand, the N9 doing Hammersmith, Kensington, Knightsbridge etc should be a breeze. WRONG! The N9 is a hellish experience, while the 53 doesn't see much trouble (or at least when I've been on it). I think the 53 is more a 'locals' bus for people who just want to get home or what-have-you. The correlation of 'deprived area - horrible route' isn't an easy one to summarise. My 53 journeys are so much better than the N155 trips I used to travel on when I lived in that part of the world. The more affluent (well, these days) areas of Clapham and Balham presented some truly nasty people. The middle class type brigade (and again, sorry if this sounds narrow minded) on a night bus makes it a very uncomfortable experience. The more 'down to earth' areas generally give people who just want to get on with it, and have no hassle
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 0:28:37 GMT
Having lived in Woolwich for a while now, I like it here I also really like all the routes you've put down (bar the 99, 401 and 469) My mum and me and my 2 brothers and sister moved from Gravesend a few years ago and let me tell you, I feel so much safer in Woolwich than there. Really did not like it in Gravesend The 401 may not be the most scenic route, but its short running time makes bus rides a lot more enjoyable. The 99 is a strange route, and I've never been on a 469 before but I know it follows the 177 along Eynsham Drive some way so...I could probably guess its not the most scenic either. I'm curious to explore the 244/380 beyond Plumstead Bus Garage. I've only been as far as Tom Cribb Road/Broadwater Road coming from Woolwich. As vjaska states below, its mainly modern housing there - Greenwich's Gallions Reach new build area - the 380 and 244 go round the houses here. The 380 is a real round-the-houses route. I think the area needs an extra bus or at least more support, especially on the 244! Whenever I'm on it, It's totally packed solid I'd send the B11 to terminate in the estate or at Belmarsh Prison. OT but Ive always found it sort of funny that an end destination for a bus is a prison
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 0:34:38 GMT
99 goes through Slade Green - say no more. The first time I went through there on my bike about three years ago there were kids in the streets throwing bottles everywhere and walking around with planks of wood , I also read on here a few years ago that the 89 drivers had all their stand time at Lewisham with only two mins stand at Slade Green just to keep them out of the area. I think this has changed now but I certainly remember Egg or LC1 posting it. +1 about Slade Green. My Mum's Mum has lived there since 1998. I went to see her last week - every time I do I'm in disbelief at how the streets are laden with broken glass and dog mess. When my Mum's parents first moved there, I thought it was quite a pleasant place to be, what with the big field at the end of Moat Lane. It didn't take too long for me to realise it wasn't. Grandad's car was broken into and vandalised horrifically ...while parked in the locked garage. Bus shelters in Slade Green and Erith tend to have pieces of metal/plastic sheeting where the glass is supposed to be, since it all got broken 15 years ago. I also recall when the trains on the Southeastern railway and buses on routes around the area had absolutely horrific etching on every single window that could be etched. No doubt the situation has improved since then though. I won't get involved with the debate about whose 1960/70s block of concrete is the scariest. I will say however that pretty much all the Elephant & Castle bus routes seem to travel in good and bad (but mostly bad) areas, which I've never found surprising. Whenever I travel on Putney's routes, I'm consistently amazed by the pristine condition of their buses. A world of difference compared to the ones at Peckham.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:00:01 GMT
Grandad's car was broken into and vandalised horrifically ...while parked in the locked garage. I'm really sorry to hear about your grandad - I was genuinely saddened when I read that. Hoping that things got sorted out in the end, and nothing else has happened since (I get mad reading about these things, my grandad is 85 now and if someone wronged him I'm not sure how I would take it)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 1:02:15 GMT
99 goes through Slade Green - say no more. The first time I went through there on my bike about three years ago there were kids in the streets throwing bottles everywhere and walking around with planks of wood , I also read on here a few years ago that the 89 drivers had all their stand time at Lewisham with only two mins stand at Slade Green just to keep them out of the area. I think this has changed now but I certainly remember Egg or LC1 posting it. +1 about Slade Green. My Mum's Mum has lived there since 1998. I went to see her last week - every time I do I'm in disbelief at how the streets are laden with broken glass and dog mess. When my Mum's parents first moved there, I thought it was quite a pleasant place to be, what with the big field at the end of Moat Lane. It didn't take too long for me to realise it wasn't. Grandad's car was broken into and vandalised horrifically ...while parked in the locked garage. Bus shelters in Slade Green and Erith tend to have pieces of metal/plastic sheeting where the glass is supposed to be, since it all got broken 15 years ago. I also recall when the trains on the Southeastern railway and buses on routes around the area had absolutely horrific etching on every single window that could be etched. No doubt the situation has improved since then though. I won't get involved with the debate about whose 1960/70s block of concrete is the scariest. I will say however that pretty much all the Elephant & Castle bus routes seem to travel in good and bad (but mostly bad) areas, which I've never found surprising. Whenever I travel on Putney's routes, I'm consistently amazed by the pristine condition of their buses. A world of difference compared to the ones at Peckham. Just glad your Grandad wasn't hurt!
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:09:36 GMT
Just glad your Grandad wasn't hurt! Some of these low-lifes operate like that - they will never face the person, be it young, old, big or small. They have to do faceless stupid things amongst their own, pitiful really. Saying that I had my bike nicked from the locked shed at PD, in a garden with a big brick wall round it. Be two years ago this summer, I have never got over the loss of old Pedals (my pet name for my mountain bike), it wasn't the most expensive bike - I bought it for £300 out of Halfords in 2009, but it rode very nicely and I had swapped bits about (the best one being when I discovered slick road tyres - whoosh), and I lost 4 stone in weight doing walks around SE London when I moved here (and learning the local area very well in the process) and going for long rides on Pedals. It was the sentimental thing and the thought that some scumbag had been in the garden and the shed where I live. I was advised by a biking bloke at work it was almost certainly kids, as I had a bike that was about five years old and cost £300, serious bike thieves wouldn't have entertained it. Serious thieves would only target a £1000+ new bike. This made me feel worse as it was a big headache for me and minimal gain for whoever did it
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jan 27, 2016 1:22:05 GMT
99 goes through Slade Green - say no more. The first time I went through there on my bike about three years ago there were kids in the streets throwing bottles everywhere and walking around with planks of wood , I also read on here a few years ago that the 89 drivers had all their stand time at Lewisham with only two mins stand at Slade Green just to keep them out of the area. I think this has changed now but I certainly remember Egg or LC1 posting it. +1 about Slade Green. My Mum's Mum has lived there since 1998. I went to see her last week - every time I do I'm in disbelief at how the streets are laden with broken glass and dog mess. When my Mum's parents first moved there, I thought it was quite a pleasant place to be, what with the big field at the end of Moat Lane. It didn't take too long for me to realise it wasn't. Grandad's car was broken into and vandalised horrifically ...while parked in the locked garage. Bus shelters in Slade Green and Erith tend to have pieces of metal/plastic sheeting where the glass is supposed to be, since it all got broken 15 years ago. I also recall when the trains on the Southeastern railway and buses on routes around the area had absolutely horrific etching on every single window that could be etched. No doubt the situation has improved since then though. I won't get involved with the debate about whose 1960/70s block of concrete is the scariest. I will say however that pretty much all the Elephant & Castle bus routes seem to travel in good and bad (but mostly bad) areas, which I've never found surprising. Whenever I travel on Putney's routes, I'm consistently amazed by the pristine condition of their buses. A world of difference compared to the ones at Peckham. Peckham is the backside of South London especially compared to other nearby areas. Brockley, Lewisham & New Cross are far from perfect but the people there seem more human like in terms of behaviour. As for your grandad, hope he was fine. What I will say is that sort of behaviour happens in Brixton as well though obviously, the planks of wood have been upgraded to knifes & guns. Anything that isn't tied down in Brixton will be stolen - period!
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 1:30:51 GMT
As for your grandad, hope he was fine. What I will say is that sort of behaviour happens in Brixton as well though obviously, the planks of wood have been upgraded to knifes & guns. Anything that isn't tied down in Brixton will be stolen - period! Well I know this and you know this Vjaska, but the 'trendy' mob see it as their new playground At least it's put the house prices up for the old school owners in the area EDIT: Last thing I'll say on social climate for now, I know this is a bus forum (despite me being the instigator of opinions of wrongdoing - apologies all).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 1:40:04 GMT
Grandad was not physically hurt, thankfully. Thanks for all the kind words. The car was actually vandalised so badly it was scrapped. I don't mean to tug at heart strings or anything, but my Grandad really did love that car. It was a modest 3 door Mini Metro in beige, but it was his pride and joy. So I'm sure it did cut him up on the inside a little bit. He was a big man, though. He used to work as a security guard at an art museum. He probably would've beaten the sh*t out of the bastards had he caught them. My Nan has told me stories of occasions when people had mistaken him for a police officer. After the Metro was scrapped they bought a P reg Honda Civic. My Aunt who lives in North London still drives it to this day. So at least that one survived Slade Green. Sadly Grandad lost a long battle with stomach cancer in 2001, so he didn't get to drive it much. My Nan has never drove, hence my being familiar with circa 2000 Bexley transport. It's no small wonder I'm so obsessed with PVLs and Networkers...
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Jan 27, 2016 2:00:10 GMT
I don't mean to tug at heart strings or anything, but my Grandad really did love that car. Same as me and my bike. I know it's a little thing but it's certain things like this that really do our heads in as life goes on, so I am with grandad on this one . No worries on kind words, every decent person would feel the same.
|
|
|
Post by stuckonthe486 on Jan 27, 2016 12:18:32 GMT
I'm more likely to be struck by contrasts on routes - after all, London is a city of wild contrasts. As noted earlier, the 380 goes through the horrible Broadwaters estate in Thamesmead, but also chugs along very affluent Hare and Billet Road on Blackheath, with varying shades of grottiness and poshness in between.
The P4 is similar - combining Loughborough Junction (albeit a rapidly-gentrifying area now) and Dulwich Village.
|
|
|
Post by riverside on Jan 27, 2016 15:30:35 GMT
In 1980 I worked as a trainee at the Bus Communications Office at Baker Street. One of the jobs I was given to do was to compile a list of all the routes that had more than 10 'code red assault type situations' in a year. A code red would be when a driver contacted the communications office to say they needed assistance from the police. The list just gives route numbers, so you can not identify if particular sections or areas of routes were the scenes of threatening situations. Here is the Top (Bottom?)20!
Route Number Number of Assault Type Situations 36/36a/36b 144 37 144 207 125 15 111 73 109 253 109 77/77a/77c 108 53 103 2/2b 82 12 73 28 71 25 68 52 66 88 65 171 65 16/16a 63 18/18a 63 30 57 243/243a 56 3 55
When I worked at Stamford Brook Garage as a conductor on route 27 the northern end of the route between Camden Town and Archway rarely gave any problems. Although a poorer area compared to other parts of the route, late night you tended to just get friendly drunks, who took awhile to get their money out of their pockets but would always pay their fares. When they were completely sozzled they would ask you to just take the correct amount out of the fistful of coins in their hands. Late night Saturday in salubrious Richmond was different. Duty 14 was the last duty of the day and arrived back at the garage at about 1am. After persistent trouble in Richmond an unofficial practice for this duty was followed by most if not all crews. On the last journey from Teddington Station the bus would cross Richmond Bridge and then stop at the traffic lights before turning left into the town centre. There was no bus stop here but passengers were politely told that they could either alight here or wait till the next stop which would be at Richmond Station. It would be explained that this was to ensure that the yobs coming out of clubs such as Cheeky Pete's did not get on the bus and cause trouble. All the passengers I dealt with accepted this situation. All of the saloon lights would then be turned off and the bus would drive past the two stops in Richmond town centre as if out of service. You can argue whether this was the right or wrong thing to do but it did avoid assault type situations. Most people would not have thought of Richmond as the rough end of the route. Ok by day but not late Saturday night. Archway, Kentish and Camden Towns were fine at any time.
|
|
|
Post by John tuthill on Jan 27, 2016 18:17:33 GMT
In 1980 I worked as a trainee at the Bus Communications Office at Baker Street. One of the jobs I was given to do was to compile a list of all the routes that had more than 10 'code red assault type situations' in a year. A code red would be when a driver contacted the communications office to say they needed assistance from the police. The list just gives route numbers, so you can not identify if particular sections or areas of routes were the scenes of threatening situations. Here is the Top (Bottom?)20! Late night Saturday in salubrious Richmond was different. Duty 14 was the last duty of the day and arrived back at the garage at about 1am. After persistent trouble in Richmond an unofficial practice for this duty was followed by most if not all crews. On the last journey from Teddington Station the bus would cross Richmond Bridge and then stop at the traffic lights before turning left into the town centre. There was no bus stop here but passengers were politely told that they could either alight here or wait till the next stop which would be at Richmond Station. It would be explained that this was to ensure that the yobs coming out of clubs such as Cheeky Pete's did not get on the bus and cause trouble. All the passengers I dealt with accepted this situation. All of the saloon lights would then be turned off and the bus would drive past the two stops in Richmond town centre as if out of service. You can argue whether this was the right or wrong thing to do but it did avoid assault type situations. Most people would not have thought of Richmond as the rough end of the route. Ok by day but not late Saturday night. Archway, Kentish and Camden Towns were fine at any time. I like your style!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 18:47:34 GMT
109/250 - Not so much nowadays due to the gentrification of Brixton but it links Croydon, West Croydon, Norbury/Thornton Heath & Brixton. 64 - Same as above to Thornton Heath and also not forgetting New Addington but Selsdon may cancel this out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 19:05:28 GMT
There are frequent calls to police from buses terminating at Penge (176), Anerley (249/432) and Crystal Palace ( any routes)
Usually it's just drunks refusing to get off.
The last trips back to Hampton on the R70 were a nightmare when FW ran it. Really busy especially in the summer. Always fights.
I think there is a correlation with areas that on paper should be trouble free but attract people who just treat buses as something they can poo all over.
|
|