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Post by TB141 on Feb 14, 2016 19:20:26 GMT
Yes I notice it all the time. Its about time TFL stop wasting money on a vanity project (NBFL) and replace these stupid 1990's Ticket Machines, which will soon end up with more redundant buttons than operational buttons. Agreed. Can't believe how old fashioned these machines are. Even driving buses in a remote part of Scotland we had far more advanced Almex machines. No modules needed at all, just a swipe card which you place on top of the machine to log in.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 14, 2016 21:58:45 GMT
Very interesting. You're a clever bunch ain't ya? I wonder then if route performance figures come from the GPS data. On low frequency routes, even 30 seconds will make all the difference when it comes to a bus meeting it's target of 2 early/5 late. I would expect the operators and TfL are well aware of any lag and that it will be factored into any calculations done on the data. You can guarantee that operators would have found something like that by now and have raised it with TfL if they were losing money under the performance regime. It is also the sort of thing that auditors would dig around and find. I would expect I-Bus and any connected systems would have been audited at least one and probably more often than that by TfL Audit. I had annual audits on different aspects of our work processes and payments when I was doing contract management. Given the millions of pounds that TfL pays the operators it would absolutely be something the auditors would check and keep checking to make sure everything was robust.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 14, 2016 22:28:26 GMT
Yes I notice it all the time. Its about time TFL stop wasting money on a vanity project (NBFL) and replace these stupid 1990's Ticket Machines, which will soon end up with more redundant buttons than operational buttons. Agreed. Can't believe how old fashioned these machines are. Even driving buses in a remote part of Scotland we had far more advanced Almex machines. No modules needed at all, just a swipe card which you place on top of the machine to log in. There was a project to replace them a couple of years ago but it was cancelled. I think the problem is that things like making buses cashless have made it extremely difficult to justify new ETMs that are designed to issue paper tickets! TfL are also hoist on their own petard of being locked into the existing supplier of the I-Bus system. TfL have adopted a strategy of "deconstructing" the I-Bus system to get out of supplier lock-in. They are going to replace the system element by element with standardised parts and computer boxes with software development probably done largely in house. As part of that I expect the ETMs will be replaced by something like an on bus data module and radio / comms system with the Oyster / card reader "plugged in" somehow. I expect a paper printing facility would be removed. TfL have also changed the structure of the revenue systems contract but when it was relet next to nothing was said about on bus equipment.
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Post by londonbusboy on Feb 14, 2016 23:09:47 GMT
Very interesting. You're a clever bunch ain't ya? I wonder then if route performance figures come from the GPS data. On low frequency routes, even 30 seconds will make all the difference when it comes to a bus meeting it's target of 2 early/5 late. Thought it was 2.5 early and 5.5 late
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Post by VPL630 on Feb 15, 2016 0:07:40 GMT
I believe the ETM gets it's time from the module, which in turn gets its time from the garage terminal when you sign the module on. I've got in buses that have been VOR for a while and fresh out of engineering, the time on the ETM can be very wrong with the MDT being correct. the ETM would quickly correct itself when I put the module in. I believe the MDT is correct getting its time from the GPS or the radio signal somehow (not exactly sure which and how it would work) much like the radio controlled clock I have at home which gets it's time from the GMT time signal. I am not a bus driver so what follows may be garbage! From my limited understanding of how I-Bus works and communicates then Madstuntman's explanation makes sense to me. The only bit I'm not sure about is that I understood the ETM and Oyster Reader are in almost real time communication via the radio system to allow contactless payment card "warn lists" to be regularly updated so fraudulent card use can be prevented. I would have expected the time to be regularly updated via that process and not necessarily via the module. However I may be misunderstanding how things work. It's done via module, if you put a corrupt module in it will set the date to the 1 Jan 1970 and the time to 0001 on the ETM
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Post by ibus246 on Feb 15, 2016 0:41:48 GMT
Agreed. Can't believe how old fashioned these machines are. Even driving buses in a remote part of Scotland we had far more advanced Almex machines. No modules needed at all, just a swipe card which you place on top of the machine to log in. There was a project to replace them a couple of years ago but it was cancelled. I think the problem is that things like making buses cashless have made it extremely difficult to justify new ETMs that are designed to issue paper tickets! TfL are also hoist on their own petard of being locked into the existing supplier of the I-Bus system. TfL have adopted a strategy of "deconstructing" the I-Bus system to get out of supplier lock-in. They are going to replace the system element by element with standardised parts and computer boxes with software development probably done largely in house. As part of that I expect the ETMs will be replaced by something like an on bus data module and radio / comms system with the Oyster / card reader "plugged in" somehow. I expect a paper printing facility would be removed. TfL have also changed the structure of the revenue systems contract but when it was relet next to nothing was said about on bus equipment. However, the paper printer is still being used at present for Ttansfer Tickets and when the one more journey bus ticket is printed advising that a minus balance is existent - presumably they may have to keep it? Unless pax are told verbally.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2016 11:03:44 GMT
However, the paper printer is still being used at present for Ttansfer Tickets and when the one more journey bus ticket is printed advising that a minus balance is existent - presumably they may have to keep it? Unless pax are told verbally. They are both very good points and it may well be that will force TfL into buying actual ETMs rather than an assemblage of component parts. I guess it may also be possible to buy a small thermal printer unit and integrate it with the card reader and whatever else is needed in future.
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Post by TB141 on Feb 15, 2016 12:06:38 GMT
Very interesting. You're a clever bunch ain't ya? I wonder then if route performance figures come from the GPS data. On low frequency routes, even 30 seconds will make all the difference when it comes to a bus meeting it's target of 2 early/5 late. Thought it was 2.5 early and 5.5 late Nope definitely between 2 early and 5 late.
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Post by TB141 on Feb 15, 2016 12:07:41 GMT
There was a project to replace them a couple of years ago but it was cancelled. I think the problem is that things like making buses cashless have made it extremely difficult to justify new ETMs that are designed to issue paper tickets! TfL are also hoist on their own petard of being locked into the existing supplier of the I-Bus system. TfL have adopted a strategy of "deconstructing" the I-Bus system to get out of supplier lock-in. They are going to replace the system element by element with standardised parts and computer boxes with software development probably done largely in house. As part of that I expect the ETMs will be replaced by something like an on bus data module and radio / comms system with the Oyster / card reader "plugged in" somehow. I expect a paper printing facility would be removed. TfL have also changed the structure of the revenue systems contract but when it was relet next to nothing was said about on bus equipment. However, the paper printer is still being used at present for Ttansfer Tickets and when the one more journey bus ticket is printed advising that a minus balance is existent - presumably they may have to keep it? Unless pax are told verbally. And for revenue inspectors.
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Post by stubag on Feb 15, 2016 17:17:16 GMT
Thought it was 2.5 early and 5.5 late Nope definitely between 2 early and 5 late. In tfl land 2 early and 4 and a half late. the rest of the country it's 1 early and 5 late.
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Post by snoggle on Feb 15, 2016 19:06:56 GMT
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 27, 2016 12:26:12 GMT
Has anyone else noticed this? The clock on the ETM is about 30 seconds faster than the MDT? I know it's a relatively minor issue but it's been really bugging me. Its not the first time it has happened. Happened a few years ago. Its been about 2 weeks now that this has happened I think.
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Post by TB141 on Feb 27, 2016 12:49:40 GMT
Has anyone else noticed this? The clock on the ETM is about 30 seconds faster than the MDT? I know it's a relatively minor issue but it's been really bugging me. Its not the first time it has happened. Happened a few years ago. Its been about 2 weeks now that this has happened I think. It seemed to have righted itself yesterday.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 27, 2016 12:58:33 GMT
Very interesting. You're a clever bunch ain't ya? I wonder then if route performance figures come from the GPS data. On low frequency routes, even 30 seconds will make all the difference when it comes to a bus meeting it's target of 2 early/5 late. Thought it was 2.5 early and 5.5 late It is 2:30 (mins:secs) early after this it shows the bus as red, normal is yellow. If it is running late it is after 4:30 (mins:secs)
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Post by capitalomnibus on Feb 27, 2016 12:59:56 GMT
But I thought the project Nimbus to replace the ETM's was cancelled.
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