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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2017 11:19:14 GMT
I cannot see a driver refusing a wheelchair if the space is free and accesiable. It happens. It's happened to me. I was waiting at a bus stop, the driver of a bus saw me as he approached the bus stop, waved me back from the step and drove straight past. The wheelchair space was empty and there was nobody standing on the bus. A lady on the bus was not happy about the driver's conduct and she complained. CCTV on the bus showed that the wheelchair space was free. Another occasion: I was in my electric wheelchair at the starting stop of the bus. There was nobody on the bus apart from the driver. He refused to lift out the ramp because he said he hadn't been trained in how to use it. But it is a straightforward ramp with straightforward operation; it just folds out. Another passenger operated the ramp. If the passenger had not done so I would not have been able to get on the bus, because the driver refused to operate the ramp to let me on board. There was a case in the news recently. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-38795688 . A person with a buggy was in the wheelchair space but when she saw a wheelchair user wishing to board she moved her buggy into the separate buggy space. But even though the wheelchair space was fully unoccupied and the buggy was in its proper place, not causing any obstruction, the driver still refused to allow the wheelchair user to get on board. The driver still refused even after the driver's boss repeatedly told both him and the wheelchair user that the driver must let her on board. So whilst you may not believe that a minority of drivers is prepared to act in such a fashion, sadly they are. I find it hard to believe that a minority of bus drivers are racist, but they are, even though racism is an anathema to me and I find it incredible that anybody could be racist. You might not be one of the drivers who can't be bothered to allow a wheelchair user on board, and you might not know any, but they do exist. If they didn't exist, then why was the law created obliging the driver to allow wheelchair users in board? And why was it reaffirmed as a law following a consultation last year?
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Post by sid on Apr 5, 2017 11:56:03 GMT
I cannot see a driver refusing a wheelchair if the space is free and accesiable. It happens. It's happened to me. I was waiting at a bus stop, the driver of a bus saw me as he approached the bus stop, waved me back from the step and drove straight past. The wheelchair space was empty and there was nobody standing on the bus. A lady on the bus was not happy about the driver's conduct and she complained. CCTV on the bus showed that the wheelchair space was free. Another occasion: I was in my electric wheelchair at the starting stop of the bus. There was nobody on the bus apart from the driver. He refused to lift out the ramp because he said he hadn't been trained in how to use it. But it is a straightforward ramp with straightforward operation; it just folds out. Another passenger operated the ramp. If the passenger had not done so I would not have been able to get on the bus, because the driver refused to operate the ramp to let me on board. There was a case in the news recently. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-38795688 . A person with a buggy was in the wheelchair space but when she saw a wheelchair user wishing to board she moved her buggy into the separate buggy space. But even though the wheelchair space was fully unoccupied and the buggy was in its proper place, not causing any obstruction, the driver still refused to allow the wheelchair user to get on board. The driver still refused even after the driver's boss repeatedly told both him and the wheelchair user that the driver must let her on board. So whilst you may not believe that a minority of drivers is prepared to act in such a fashion, sadly they are. I find it hard to believe that a minority of bus drivers are racist, but they are, even though racism is an anathema to me and I find it incredible that anybody could be racist. You might not be one of the drivers who can't be bothered to allow a wheelchair user on board, and you might not know any, but they do exist. If they didn't exist, then why was the law created obliging the driver to allow wheelchair users in board? And why was it reaffirmed as a law following a consultation last year? Without knowing the drivers side of the story in these incidents it's impossible to pass judgement, I don't think it's appropriate to hold a kangaroo court on here. Obviously if any driver has failed to do their job properly they should be dealt with by company disciplinary proceedures. Being unable to accommodate a wheelchair because other passengers are occupying the space is beyond the drivers control. I don't think we need to bring racism into this do we?
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2017 23:04:11 GMT
Obviously if any driver has failed to do their job properly they should be dealt with by company disciplinary proceedures. Being unable to accommodate a wheelchair because other passengers are occupying the space is beyond the drivers control. If a driver is accused of refusing a wheelchair user access to an empty wheelchair space without good reason then they should be reported to the police for investigation. I don't see why they should be dealt with solely by company disciplinary procedures. If a driver is accused of committing another criminal offence, including summary-only offences such as common assault, riotous behaviour, driving whilst unfit / with excess alcohol / without a license or breach of the peace, people would generally contact the police. This offence is no different, as confirmed by the police. I have the Police Crime Commissioner's permission to quote the following response - they said: I don't know why you keep suggesting that such should be dealt with through the disciplinary procedures - perhaps the next time you are the victim of summary-only offences such as common assault you should automatically discount the possibility of calling the police, irrespective of the circumstances. I similarly don't get why you keep talking about when I have been entirely clear that I am talking about instances when the wheelchair space was unoccupied. I can only assume you are purposefully misinterpreting what I have said.
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Post by sid on May 14, 2017 4:21:53 GMT
Obviously if any driver has failed to do their job properly they should be dealt with by company disciplinary proceedures. Being unable to accommodate a wheelchair because other passengers are occupying the space is beyond the drivers control. If a driver is accused of refusing a wheelchair user access to an empty wheelchair space without good reason then they should be reported to the police for investigation. I don't see why they should be dealt with solely by company disciplinary procedures. If a driver is accused of committing another criminal offence, including summary-only offences such as common assault, riotous behaviour, driving whilst unfit / with excess alcohol / without a license or breach of the peace, people would generally contact the police. This offence is no different, as confirmed by the police. I have the Police Crime Commissioner's permission to quote the following response - they said: I don't know why you keep suggesting that such should be dealt with through the disciplinary procedures - perhaps the next time you are the victim of summary-only offences such as common assault you should automatically discount the possibility of calling the police, irrespective of the circumstances. I similarly don't get why you keep talking about when I have been entirely clear that I am talking about instances when the wheelchair space was unoccupied. I can only assume you are purposefully misinterpreting what I have said. This isn't really getting anywhere. If the wheelchair space is unoccupied and there is no other reason why a wheelchair cannot be accommodated then the driver is obviously in the wrong. If I were waiting at a bus stop and the driver declined to stop then I would take the matter up with the bus operator and not the police.
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Post by allentc on May 14, 2017 8:49:04 GMT
It's happened to me. I was waiting at a bus stop, the driver of a bus saw me as he approached the bus stop, waved me back from the step and drove straight past. The wheelchair space was empty and there was nobody standing on the bus. I'm not sure what bus type it was but if it had an electric ramp perhaps it was faulty? That said it would have been better for the driver to stop and tell you it was broken and advise when the next bus was coming rather than just driving past.
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Post by snoggle on May 14, 2017 12:11:02 GMT
It's happened to me. I was waiting at a bus stop, the driver of a bus saw me as he approached the bus stop, waved me back from the step and drove straight past. The wheelchair space was empty and there was nobody standing on the bus. I'm not sure what bus type it was but if it had an electric ramp perhaps it was faulty? That said it would have been better for the driver to stop and tell you it was broken and advise when the next bus was coming rather than just driving past. Buses in Yorkshire have fold out ramps not electric ones. If a fold out ramp was unusable for some reason then the bus shouldn't be in service.
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Post by M1104 on May 16, 2017 15:27:11 GMT
It appears that one of ibus's preset messages will be slightly updated in relation to the recent Supreme Court ruling earlier this year. The revised broadcast starting from Friday May 26th will be....
"A customer needs the wheelchair priority area. Please make space"
There will also be an additional message in case any buggy users fail to move....
"Customers are required to make space for a wheelchair user. This bus will wait while this happens"
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Post by SILENCED on May 16, 2017 15:31:37 GMT
It appears that one of ibus's preset messages will be slightly updated in relation to the recent Supreme Court ruling earlier this year. The revised broadcast starting from Friday May 26th will be.... "A customer needs the wheelchair priority area. Please make space" There will also be an additional message in case any buggy users fail to move.... "Customers are required to make space for a wheelchair user. This bus will wait while this happens" Well that covers the ruling .... if they don't move after that though. At least it is a TfL message, so can't say the driver is wrong.
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Post by rambo on May 16, 2017 18:32:59 GMT
It appears that one of ibus's preset messages will be slightly updated in relation to the recent Supreme Court ruling earlier this year. The revised broadcast starting from Friday May 26th will be.... "A customer needs the wheelchair priority area. Please make space" There will also be an additional message in case any buggy users fail to move.... "Customers are required to make space for a wheelchair user. This bus will wait while this happens" Required-yes, but MUST, no, What if the buggy mum still refuses to move?
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Post by sid on May 16, 2017 19:57:07 GMT
It appears that one of ibus's preset messages will be slightly updated in relation to the recent Supreme Court ruling earlier this year. The revised broadcast starting from Friday May 26th will be.... "A customer needs the wheelchair priority area. Please make space" There will also be an additional message in case any buggy users fail to move.... "Customers are required to make space for a wheelchair user. This bus will wait while this happens" Required-yes, but MUST, no, What if the buggy mum still refuses to move? Back to square one again!
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Post by rambo on May 17, 2017 19:09:31 GMT
Required-yes, but MUST, no, What if the buggy mum still refuses to move? Back to square one again! Yep, the court ruling made sod all difference.
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Post by redbus on May 17, 2017 23:17:51 GMT
Back to square one again! Yep, the court ruling made sod all difference. The iBus announcement may well help in that it will make it more likely that buggy mom will move out of the wheelchair area. Sure she may stay put and then we are back to square one, but the announcement might reduce the chances of that happening.
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Post by sid on May 18, 2017 5:45:32 GMT
Yep, the court ruling made sod all difference. The iBus announcement may well help in that it will make it more likely that buggy mom will move out of the wheelchair area. Sure she may stay put and then we are back to square one, but the announcement might reduce the chances of that happening. But if buggy mum, or indeed dad, has nowhere to move to then the announcement isn't going to make a jot of difference. I think it's fair to say that most buggy pushers are quite reasonable and will move if they possibly can.
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Post by snowman on Jul 20, 2021 15:36:02 GMT
TfLs new Conditions of carriage dated 19th July 2021 have notes on acceptable buggies section 11.1 has maximum unfolded width of 70cm and length 120cm section 11.2 is wheelchair or mobility scooter users have priority over buggies I hope drivers remember to carry a tape measure with them content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-conditions-of-carriage.pdf
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2021 16:02:06 GMT
TfLs new Conditions of carriage dated 19th July 2021 have notes on acceptable buggies section 11.1 has maximum unfolded width of 70cm and length 120cm section 11.2 is wheelchair or mobility scooter users have priority over buggies I hope drivers remember to carry a tape measure with them content.tfl.gov.uk/tfl-conditions-of-carriage.pdfI think the guidance is more so just to cover TfL should a buggy too big get on and have an accident and someone tries to sue TfL.
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