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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 7:49:00 GMT
I think outer London has an ounce more patience than Lononders, seems it's a constant rush even I try to slow down.
The back door boarding is either the next bus is probably too full, or it's the only bus going that particular destination, case with the 279 it's the only main road bus to Waltham Cross whereas the 491 dips in and out which doesn't help the school crowd/afterwork lot who live Turkey Street etc
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 26, 2016 8:23:26 GMT
Yet another waste of time from TFL. Sort out the african mums with buggies. Sort out the waynetta mums with buggies.Another example of a problem not being nipped in the bud. As many of you know, I now drive buses in/around basildon. I have not had 1 single problem with buggies. Buggie mums always look to see if there is room, if it looks tight, they always ask if it is OK to get on. In london what does not help is allowing buggies to use rear doors. All buggies should use front doors, and if they don't fit down the isle, should not be allowed on. And yes, I know the usual leftie groups will scream 'what about double buggies/poor families/single mums etc etc'. I don't think it is nessasary to pin point just african and waynetta mums, just state all mums because now it is coming across as all these type of mums cause these issues effectively bringing across a stereotype, it is all of them. There should be a rule for pram users, like Wheelchair Users. No more than 1 pram user regardless of the space will solve so many problems, because now if 4 prams are there and 1 Wheelchair user wishes to board then there is a problem, I've seen this on the 75 before and 2 Pram users refused to move, the wheelchair user refused to move and held up 2 buses for refusing to give way. The Police were on scene. Funny enough I've not come across such a situation yet and if I do, were not going anywhere until the Wheelchair user is safely boarded and the pram users move and fold, cannot discriminate against a disabled person. Anyone else has to fold and can use priority seats. No shopping on prams either it should be a requirement to remove all shopping from the pram handles. It should be a criminal offence to refuse to move for a wheelchair user. Before Low Floor buses was not possible to bring on Unfolded prams, on don't see why it cannot be the same today.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 26, 2016 9:07:16 GMT
Yet another waste of time from TFL. Sort out the african mums with buggies. Sort out the waynetta mums with buggies.Another example of a problem not being nipped in the bud. As many of you know, I now drive buses in/around basildon. I have not had 1 single problem with buggies. Buggie mums always look to see if there is room, if it looks tight, they always ask if it is OK to get on. In london what does not help is allowing buggies to use rear doors. All buggies should use front doors, and if they don't fit down the isle, should not be allowed on. And yes, I know the usual leftie groups will scream 'what about double buggies/poor families/single mums etc etc'. I don't think it is nessasary to pin point just african and waynetta mums, just state all mums because now it is coming across as all these type of mums cause these issues effectively bringing across a stereotype, it is all of them. There should be a rule for pram users, like Wheelchair Users. No more than 1 pram user regardless of the space will solve so many problems, because now if 4 prams are there and 1 Wheelchair user wishes to board then there is a problem, I've seen this on the 75 before and 2 Pram users refused to move, the wheelchair user refused to move and held up 2 buses for refusing to give way. The Police were on scene. Funny enough I've not come across such a situation yet and if I do, were not going anywhere until the Wheelchair user is safely boarded and the pram users move and fold, cannot discriminate against a disabled person. Anyone else has to fold and can use priority seats. No shopping on prams either it should be a requirement to remove all shopping from the pram handles. It should be a criminal offence to refuse to move for a wheelchair user. Before Low Floor buses was not possible to bring on Unfolded prams, on don't see why it cannot be the same today. It's not really an issue with African mums as it's a problem throughout London - the sense of entitlement because of the popular Benefits culture which spans all races When my disabled son was alive, (he lived till age 4) he had a specially adapted wheelchair to accommodate his oxygen cylinders, but to most it looked like a regular buggy. My Mrs said she had numerous run-ins with Nigerian mums on the buses - most who would fight to the death to keep their place in the wheelchair area. Most can just fold up the buggy, but any request is met with the kissing of teeth, rolling eyes, and worse such as punches or pulling of hair extensions Some buses we couldn't get on due to bad design - the VNLs on the 259 had grab poles that blocked some parts of the gangway which would mean getting on thru the back doors, so we would wait for a DLP or DLA which we knew we could get on down to Seven Sisters, or hope NP would throw a TN on the 259 or 476 TfL could commission some specially adapted E400 City (devoid of seats on the lower deck aside from the driver's ) to be made which could run on certain routes where these Aggro Mums are causing an issue - Wright could also make a similar Daimler-engined model with a similar design called the StreetMum
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Post by DT 11 on Feb 26, 2016 9:36:21 GMT
I don't think it is nessasary to pin point just african and waynetta mums, just state all mums because now it is coming across as all these type of mums cause these issues effectively bringing across a stereotype, it is all of them. There should be a rule for pram users, like Wheelchair Users. No more than 1 pram user regardless of the space will solve so many problems, because now if 4 prams are there and 1 Wheelchair user wishes to board then there is a problem, I've seen this on the 75 before and 2 Pram users refused to move, the wheelchair user refused to move and held up 2 buses for refusing to give way. The Police were on scene. Funny enough I've not come across such a situation yet and if I do, were not going anywhere until the Wheelchair user is safely boarded and the pram users move and fold, cannot discriminate against a disabled person. Anyone else has to fold and can use priority seats. No shopping on prams either it should be a requirement to remove all shopping from the pram handles. It should be a criminal offence to refuse to move for a wheelchair user. Before Low Floor buses was not possible to bring on Unfolded prams, on don't see why it cannot be the same today. It's not really an issue with African mums as it's a problem throughout London - the sense of entitlement because of the popular Benefits culture which spans all races When my disabled son was alive, (he lived till age 4) he had a specially adapted wheelchair to accommodate his oxygen cylinders, but to most it looked like a regular buggy. My Mrs said she had numerous run-ins with Nigerian mums on the buses - most who would fight to the death to keep their place in the wheelchair area. Most can just fold up the buggy, but any request is met with the kissing of teeth, rolling eyes, and worse such as punches or pulling of hair extensions Some buses we couldn't get on due to bad design - the VNLs on the 259 had grab poles that blocked some parts of the gangway which would mean getting on thru the back doors, so we would wait for a DLP or DLA which we knew we could get on down to Seven Sisters, or hope NP would throw a TN on the 259 or 476 TfL could commission some specially adapted E400 City (devoid of seats on the lower deck aside from the driver's ) to be made which could run on certain routes where these Aggro Mums are causing an issue - Wright could also make a similar Daimler-engined model with a similar design called the StreetMum Just goes to show how the attitude of some people stink. Sorry but in certain situations the customer is not always right, work in retail for a while and see the arrogant people who think they know everything... Sorry if the customer is wrong they are wrong and need to be told, same rule applies to everyone as it does to that one person. Would like to have a week without public transport and see how grateful people will become after that week after realising they have to walk everywhere for the two stop journeys a lot of people take. My Other Bus Is a Pram Awaits ServerKing's photoshop LOOL the MECs come to mind In addition I would like to add if the child can walk fold it up and use a Child Harness... Sorry but full sized toddlers do not need to be in prams taking up space when they can walk holding the parents hand. Have heard stories of people leaving their prams behind too, Bad parenting!!!
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Post by vjaska on Feb 26, 2016 10:08:29 GMT
It's not really an issue with African mums as it's a problem throughout London - the sense of entitlement because of the popular Benefits culture which spans all races When my disabled son was alive, (he lived till age 4) he had a specially adapted wheelchair to accommodate his oxygen cylinders, but to most it looked like a regular buggy. My Mrs said she had numerous run-ins with Nigerian mums on the buses - most who would fight to the death to keep their place in the wheelchair area. Most can just fold up the buggy, but any request is met with the kissing of teeth, rolling eyes, and worse such as punches or pulling of hair extensions Some buses we couldn't get on due to bad design - the VNLs on the 259 had grab poles that blocked some parts of the gangway which would mean getting on thru the back doors, so we would wait for a DLP or DLA which we knew we could get on down to Seven Sisters, or hope NP would throw a TN on the 259 or 476 TfL could commission some specially adapted E400 City (devoid of seats on the lower deck aside from the driver's ) to be made which could run on certain routes where these Aggro Mums are causing an issue - Wright could also make a similar Daimler-engined model with a similar design called the StreetMum Just goes to show how the attitude of some people stink. Sorry but in certain situations the customer is not always right, work in retail for a while and see the arrogant people who think they know everything... Sorry if the customer is wrong they are wrong and need to be told, same rule applies to everyone as it does to that one person. Would like to have a week without public transport and see how grateful people will become after that week after realising they have to walk everywhere for the two stop journeys a lot of people take. My Other Bus Is a Pram Awaits ServerKing's photoshop LOOL the MECs come to mind In addition I would like to add if the child can walk fold it up and use a Child Harness... Sorry but full sized toddlers do not need to be in prams taking up space when they can walk holding the parents hand. Have heard stories of people leaving their prams behind too, Bad parenting!!! "The customer is always right" - don't I know it because 95% of the time, they are wrong. I've come across plenty of arrogant customers and one or two who want to dish out imaginary violence - I say imaginary because I'm still waiting since last year for one particular customer to throw the juice in my head because I told him you have to buy it before opening and drinking it!
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Post by londonbusboy on Feb 26, 2016 10:23:21 GMT
It's more people 'expect'. So many passengers with buggies dont bother to ask the driver if can they board the rear doors because they expect to be let on there. Same with people standing by the front doors when you pull up at a stop they expect you to let them off there.
If its a packed bus ill open the front doors to let people off but on a quiet one i wont bother unless asked.
If a buggy gets on the rear doors without asking i will sometimes ask them to ask next time.
[EDIT] I pulled up at a stop once and there were 2 buggies waiting and i only had 1 space, one of the mums boarded the front doors but the other quickly went in through the back to take the last space!
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Post by stubag on Feb 26, 2016 11:04:26 GMT
Last few days I've had at least a row day because I've asked a buggy mum to fold it. Very politely, because of wheelchair user is already occupying the space, or there are more than 2 buggies on board. And people do get very defensive. the tuts and dirty looks from fellow passengers is mind boggling. I've even had a complaint because I said please fold your buggy because of a wheelchair user on board, woman wasn't happy, I waited til she folded it and sat down. Her excuse she should use the space instead "my 3 yr old has a fever. And I'm late for an appointment" then called up TfL while on the bus about it!!!! Unbelievable!!!
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Post by sid on Feb 26, 2016 11:04:33 GMT
Yet another waste of time from TFL. Sort out the african mums with buggies. Sort out the waynetta mums with buggies. Another example of a problem not being nipped in the bud. As many of you know, I now drive buses in/around basildon. I have not had 1 single problem with buggies. Buggie mums always look to see if there is room, if it looks tight, they always ask if it is OK to get on. In london what does not help is allowing buggies to use rear doors. All buggies should use front doors, and if they don't fit down the isle, should not be allowed on. And yes, I know the usual leftie groups will scream 'what about double buggies/poor families/single mums etc etc'. Yes allowing buggies on through the rear door has just exacerbated the problem. Other than that I can't see a solution, it's just first come first served unless unfolded buggies are banned completely but I can't see that being accepted now that the jeanie has been let out of the bottle!
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Post by John tuthill on Feb 26, 2016 11:17:07 GMT
Yet another waste of time from TFL. Sort out the african mums with buggies. Sort out the waynetta mums with buggies. Another example of a problem not being nipped in the bud.
As many of you know, I now drive buses in/around basildon. I have not had 1 single problem with buggies. Buggie mums always look to see if there is room, if it looks tight, they always ask if it is OK to get on. In london what does not help is allowing buggies to use rear doors. All buggies should use front doors, and if they don't fit down the isle, should not be allowed on. And yes, I know the usual leftie groups will scream 'what about double buggies/poor families/single mums etc etc'. Yes allowing buggies on through the rear door has just exacerbated the problem. Other than that I can't see a solution, it's just first come first served unless unfolded buggies are banned completely but I can't see that being accepted now that the jeanie has been let out of the bottle! Here is a possible solution? Plenty of fresh air for chav & sprog? Attachment Deleted
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 26, 2016 11:35:17 GMT
It's not really an issue with African mums as it's a problem throughout London - the sense of entitlement because of the popular Benefits culture which spans all races When my disabled son was alive, (he lived till age 4) he had a specially adapted wheelchair to accommodate his oxygen cylinders, but to most it looked like a regular buggy. My Mrs said she had numerous run-ins with Nigerian mums on the buses - most who would fight to the death to keep their place in the wheelchair area. Most can just fold up the buggy, but any request is met with the kissing of teeth, rolling eyes, and worse such as punches or pulling of hair extensions Some buses we couldn't get on due to bad design - the VNLs on the 259 had grab poles that blocked some parts of the gangway which would mean getting on thru the back doors, so we would wait for a DLP or DLA which we knew we could get on down to Seven Sisters, or hope NP would throw a TN on the 259 or 476 TfL could commission some specially adapted E400 City (devoid of seats on the lower deck aside from the driver's ) to be made which could run on certain routes where these Aggro Mums are causing an issue - Wright could also make a similar Daimler-engined model with a similar design called the StreetMum Just goes to show how the attitude of some people stink. Sorry but in certain situations the customer is not always right, work in retail for a while and see the arrogant people who think they know everything... Sorry if the customer is wrong they are wrong and need to be told, same rule applies to everyone as it does to that one person. Would like to have a week without public transport and see how grateful people will become after that week after realising they have to walk everywhere for the two stop journeys a lot of people take. My Other Bus Is a Pram Awaits ServerKing's photoshop LOOL the MECs come to mind In addition I would like to add if the child can walk fold it up and use a Child Harness... Sorry but full sized toddlers do not need to be in prams taking up space when they can walk holding the parents hand. Have heard stories of people leaving their prams behind too, Bad parenting!!! As requested
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Post by RT3062 on Feb 26, 2016 14:14:12 GMT
In my opinion colour or race doesnt seem to make any difference to buggy users.without making any sweeping genralisations there all as bad as each other:-):-)its not helped by the fact some buggies are the size of a small hatchback.my worse experience of buggies would have to be in the grays area.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2016 17:43:03 GMT
This is not going to work because you can't radically change someone's opinion straight away, it has to be a long term scenario and won't have to change overnight. It has to start from education and should be common sense however though for some it's not. Also if you do educate there'll be a handful that still won't listen and it will be hard to police and keep in charge as it will be expensive for them to check/look on to the situation even with things like CCTV. Also people tend to be at the most defensive and want the best for their children when in public and when told to different will have a fit despite if a wheelchair person more needing of it won't get on and they'll have to wait for an extra 10 min in the cold also this will annoy the passengers so of course they'll get frustrated and tut and kiss their teeth as they just want to get home. Also I think it's fine that there allowed to go on to the back as some buggies may not fit and it will be quicker as they're going straight on to the back and don't have to heckle through the middle. I think a resolution for this is that they have to fold their buggies may be harsh but this is the only place that they can go whilst buggies can and their using their advantages too far.
This reminds me of there board that shows how many people are upstairs a good initiative from tfl but won't work because simply it's up to the people and if they don't fancy the seat they won't seat on it despite if downstairs is packed and the bus driver is telling people to go upstairs but they still won't, again it has to do with education and being nice to other, even when people ask to go down the bus even if their is space at their back for no reason.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 26, 2016 18:49:26 GMT
Was on WVL78 on the 45 earlier today. At Brixton, the driver idiotically let 3 unfolded buggies on when a Mk 1 Gemini can only take two unfolded, so what happened - the 3rd one was positioned between the rear door and the wheelchair space (god help if a wheelchair actually wanted to board) blocking anyone from trying to get to the area beyond the rear door. This happened not once but twice because as he we got to the Brixton Station Road bus stop on Gresham Road towards Camberwell, one buggy got off and another got on - at first, the driver was going to rightfully refuse her onboard with it unfolded but then decided to relent and let her on and she placed hers in the exact same place as the buggy that had just got off. Never mind the fact that people can't pass or heaven forbid, a fire broke out!
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 26, 2016 20:40:08 GMT
I think something has to be done about this. Back in 2014, I had T58 before its refurb on the 466 home, and there was a disabled woman in the priority seat. There was also a buggy there. The driver decided to let on another buggy, then the disabled woman and the buggy user started arguing and swearing at each other. I couldn't stand it. Thankfully I haven't seen anything since but TfL are finally doing something about it. Whether it works or not, we shall see.
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Post by TB141 on Feb 26, 2016 22:18:59 GMT
People should not need an 'etiquette guide' to know how not to behave like an arsehole.
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