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Post by john on May 17, 2016 7:54:43 GMT
Another bus type(s) I've forgotten were the ones used on the 47, 136 and P3. I remember there was one particular bus type that had the rear blind box located in the bottom corner of the rear window downstairs. I'd always love seeing these on the 136! Wow...am I old now?  That sounds like the VNs, basically the Stagecoach version of the NVs. As well as the rear route number positioning other minor differences were that those Volvos had Voith gearboxes with the M reg examples having the Cummin L10 engines whilst the R reg had standard Volvo units. The R-reg VN's had a revised rear end with the blind box above the rear window like the NV's but I loved them all!!! Was lucky enough that NS had the "original" batch of VN's (I say original as Selkent had an earlier batch that was only numbered when they experimented with a different fleet numbering system not long after Stagecoach originally took over) VN1-9 which were officially allocated to the 374 and we're beasts plus LWB. Also remember towards the end of their lives VN3 gaining gold Stagecoach vynls, speed limit signs and a tachograph too. Only thing I hated was they were provincial height and bloody low lol. Quite miss them! |
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Post by M1104 on May 17, 2016 8:12:36 GMT
That sounds like the VNs, basically the Stagecoach version of the NVs. As well as the rear route number positioning other minor differences were that those Volvos had Voith gearboxes with the M reg examples having the Cummin L10 engines whilst the R reg had standard Volvo units. The R-reg VN's had a revised rear end with the blind box above the rear window like the NV's but I loved them all!!! Was lucky enough that NS had the "original" batch of VN's (I say original as Selkent had an earlier batch that was only numbered when they experimented with a different fleet numbering system not long after Stagecoach originally took over) VN1-9 which were officially allocated to the 374 and we're beasts plus LWB. Also remember towards the end of their lives VN3 gaining gold Stagecoach vynls, speed limit signs and a tachograph too. Only thing I hated was they were provincial height and bloody low lol. Quite miss them! I wasn't too sure about the rear blind box on the R reg variants. I suspected it wasn't quite the same as the M reg, which did indeed look more low height. I actually preferred the M reg for their Cummin engine. Coupled to a Voith box they reminded me a bit of the Cummin engine Metrobuses that were used on the 59/95/109/118/133 in the mid 80s. |
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Post by john on May 17, 2016 8:22:11 GMT
The R-reg VN's had a revised rear end with the blind box above the rear window like the NV's but I loved them all!!! Was lucky enough that NS had the "original" batch of VN's (I say original as Selkent had an earlier batch that was only numbered when they experimented with a different fleet numbering system not long after Stagecoach originally took over) VN1-9 which were officially allocated to the 374 and we're beasts plus LWB. Also remember towards the end of their lives VN3 gaining gold Stagecoach vynls, speed limit signs and a tachograph too. Only thing I hated was they were provincial height and bloody low lol. Quite miss them! I wasn't too sure about the rear blind box on the R reg variants. I suspected it wasn't quite the same as the M reg, which did indeed look more low height. I actually preferred the M reg for their Cummin engine. Coupled to a Voith box they reminded me a bit of the Cummin engine Metrobuses that were used on the 59/95/109/118/133 in the mid 80s. 2 Olympians that i did love were the 2 L-reg Volvo ones plus the last Leyland that were on Palatine II bodies. If I remember rightly, they were the first Volvo Olympians when Capital Citybus took took them! |
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Post by enviroPB on May 17, 2016 16:25:10 GMT
The 25 has captured a lot of my journey time in the past decade. From using it for 2 stops to do the Saturday shop; to going to/from central London from Newham, it has been a lifesaver for me and 'the lifeblood of east London' to quote some. Remember being a socialite and hopping on a Ciatro to somewhere like Soho or Traff* and knowing after my hour plus journey, that I'd need to change buses to carry on my journey. But that was fun to me; not going underground at rush hour just to sniff people's armpits. Mind you, that did happen as well on the bendies!   My mates thought I was crazy going for the 25 every single time we went to the West End; but sitting on the solo seat close to the driver, hearing the roar of the bus taking 150 passengers to their end journey & using buses over trains cause it was free for kids; lool I had a blast on that route!! Nowadays I now avoid the route like the plague; mainly cause I don't need it as much as I now live in Barking. The 5/115/15 combo is not as fun as just taking one bus and enjoying the ride but it'll have to do lool. Still stray corridors from time to time so get a 25 up to Ilford and change for Barking; but for me the route is not same after the articulated vehicles got withdrawn. And now that it's soon to be gone altogether *grabs tissue* sorry I need a moment!  *Oh the youth shortening every word in existence due to their abhorrent laziness. Can't even type the abbreviation again; deviations from grammar and vocabulary scathe me to the core! |
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Post by M1199 on May 17, 2016 17:47:22 GMT
H91: From everything at HH to, erm... Every type of double decker in HH. LLWs were probably the most memorable, followed by practically every non-AV 10.8m Dart batch. Remember the non-functioning air conditioning and the luggage racks. Yes, more ex-555 Darts. Olympians and Metrobuses popped round as well. Then SP1-15 became the allocation after progressively newer Darts came onto the route, including the batches from the 49 and 33. iBus loans were the DNs from Blue Triangle. Yes, I had a photo. Double decker conversion was solidified by the newer, current SPs. However, Tridents for the 635, and VHs for the 285/116 still run on the route. And there are always the odd Enviro 200 and, yes, more Darts. Some things still don't change. Like the morning Sunday service still being every half hour. The H91 in the early 00's was awesome! I remember waiting in anticipation at Hammersmith most Saturday's, not knowing what kind of bus would turn up. Seeing as it was "allocated" LLW's, I would be ecstatic when a Metrobus would swing round the bus station. Don't get me wrong, I also loved the LLW's too, must be the only one on this forum that liked them! During that period, I must have travelled on LLW's, M's, L's, DR's, DRL's, CD's, DP's and I even think I may of had a VA. In all a nice way to spend a Saturday afternoon. After the LLW's finally departed and the route settled down to DP operation, I didn't mind that either as I love the sound of a Euro_2 Dart getting thrashed! When the route got "downgraded" to DPS operation and a timetable change came in, which meant buses crawled along the Great West Road at barely 20mph I gave it a miss for a few years! However since it was converted to SP operation, I've started using it again, they do seem to suit the route, even more so when one of the 56reg's turn up. |
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 22:24:54 GMT
Too many to list.
However my favourites were as follows...
N97 When it ran to Heathrow. AV always seemed to use their best A, B and C reg M's , some were fitted with the Harrow smart ticket readers for the 140. Used to love the early morning thrashes up to Trafalgar Square
N9 When it ran from Kingston. Brilliant on Riverside Bus L's , not so brilliant when AV took over using elderly M's , perhaps I was always unlucky in getting a T or V reg bus turn up, often late, and full of crap inside.
H91 , when HH used anything from DR,CD,LLW, M, L, LX , DRL , you simply never knew what was going to turn up.
90B/285 , the former with M's of course, the latter with M's but later with DT's until those awfully cramped yellow DRL's from London Buslines took over, at which point I preferred the DAF Ikarus buses on the 726
On Sunday mornings to reach Marble Arch I used to catch the first A2 from Heathrow. Those Volvo Olympians were great buses, so comfortable and fast. I hope one day we get to see dedicated red buses doing the Heathrow runs again from Central London.
More recently, it's the 96,227 and 269. So I'm becoming a Stagecoach fan now, even though my heart has always been LU territory.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 23:06:07 GMT
Too many to list. However my favourites were as follows... N97 When it ran to Heathrow. AV always seemed to use their best A, B and C reg M's , some were fitted with the Harrow smart ticket readers for the 140. Used to love the early morning thrashes up to Trafalgar Square N9 When it ran from Kingston. Brilliant on Riverside Bus L's , not so brilliant when AV took over using elderly M's , perhaps I was always unlucky in getting a T or V reg bus turn up, often late, and full of crap inside. H91 , when HH used anything from DR,CD,LLW, M, L, LX , DRL , you simply never knew what was going to turn up. 90B/285 , the former with M's of course, the latter with M's but later with DT's until those awfully cramped yellow DRL's from London Buslines took over, at which point I preferred the DAF Ikarus buses on the 726 On Sunday mornings to reach Marble Arch I used to catch the first A2 from Heathrow. Those Volvo Olympians were great buses, so comfortable and fast. I hope one day we get to see dedicated red buses doing the Heathrow runs again from Central London. More recently, it's the 96,227 and 269. So I'm becoming a Stagecoach fan now, even though my heart has always been LU territory. Do you remember travelling from Piccadilly Circus to Kingston on the N9? Did you use the route in 2001 before it was rerouted? Also, do you prefer the N97 running to Heathrow or just Hammersmith? I still think it's COMPLETELY unfair no replacement was provided in Kingston for the N9 or N22. So gutted. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 14:28:03 GMT
N9 - When first introduced, to replace the N65/92 , it ran every 30 mins on the common section with an hourly bus either taking the Ham section , or the Teddington section.
The buses leaving the West End were always packed. and before it was all changed the frequency went to every 15 mins between the West end and Putney Bridge.
N97 - I always preferred this route doing the Heathrow runs. It seemed to make more sense as it serves more of the Hotel area around South Kensington and mirrors the Piccadilly Line more than the new N9 in Central London.
Kingston , in 1992 it had the N14.N87 and N65/92. On Fri/Sat nights, 11 West End bound trips were scheduled on the N65/92, 8 on the N14 ( of which 5 started from Chessington) and only 5 on the N87 ( which then started at Hampton Court)
Intestingly now, the only West end link is the N87 at every 10 mins Fri/Sat nights. This mirrors the SWT service via Raynes Park , Wimbledon , Wandsworth and Clapham Junc so makes sense in that respect. But a quicker route would be an extension of the (n)85 from Putney Bridge into the West End following the 22 route perhaps... but thats for another topic.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 17:53:43 GMT
It would be interesting to know Snoggle, what you think of 123 in terms of, has it improved? If so has it improved at great enough rate? Does it still need further improvements? Where there any missed opportunities to improve/change the service over the years? and how you rank the compared to other services you may use more regularly. I used to use 123 for 8 years travelling to school and Sixth Form (when it was run by First and Arriva when it changed over). I haven't used it on a regular basis for a few years now. I had a perception that was great in the mornings, lousy come the evening. I remember the days of standing in the wet and rain my school uniform on Woodford Avenue and waiting an hour or more for a bus home  It always seemed like one of those routes that got left behind, whilst every other service around received investment. I remember when the 179 had a frequency uplift and brand spanking new Tridents, whilst 123 still sported the same old yellow high step machines and ancient timetable. 275 was also in that bracket for me...... I know things have changed a lot since, but I have moved from the area so it would good to know if and how things have changed? |
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Post by snoggle on May 18, 2016 20:22:36 GMT
It would be interesting to know Snoggle, what you think of 123 in terms of, has it improved? If so has it improved at great enough rate? Does it still need further improvements? Where there any missed opportunities to improve/change the service over the years? and how you rank the compared to other services you may use more regularly. I used to use 123 for 8 years travelling to school and Sixth Form (when it was run by First and Arriva when it changed over). I haven't used it on a regular basis for a few years now. I had a perception that was great in the mornings, lousy come the evening. I remember the days of standing in the wet and rain my school uniform on Woodford Avenue and waiting an hour or more for a bus home It always seemed like one of those routes that got left behind, whilst every other service around received investment. I remember when the 179 had a frequency uplift and brand spanking new Tridents, whilst 123 still sported the same old yellow high step machines and ancient timetable. 275 was also in that bracket for me...... I know things have changed a lot since, but I have moved from the area so it would good to know if and how things have changed? I'll try not to go into rant mode  A few comments below. 1. I think Arriva do a better job than First London did. Running from a garage mid route seems much better than running from a garage remote from one end of the route. I haven't had to wait 48 minutes for a bus under Arriva.  However some of Arriva's service management decisions leave a lot to be desired. 2. We've seen no demonstrable frequency improvement other than a better evening service in 2006. 3. We have had a "temporary" timetable on the route for over 3 years with a stupid x11 mins headway. I consider this to be unacceptable. 4. We have far too much variation around headway performance - too many 15-20-25 min gaps at random times of the day. 5. The route is completely overloaded with schools and college traffic through Waltham Forest. You can't board buses at some stops for 40-60 min periods. Peak periods can also be extremely difficult with overloaded buses. Patronage has risen by 40% over 15 years - not as big as some other routes but still over 2m extra pass jnys. When you compare the 123's patronage and service levels with other routes carrying the same numbers of people it has the worst service levels in London. Routes 35 and 37 are similarly under resourced for their similar patronage levels but have better Sunday frequencies (37 does) than the 123 has. 6. There are endemic performance issues (bunched buses at school times) which neither the operator nor TfL are prepared to do anything about. Same thing happens every single school day. 7. We now have some of the oldest buses in London which may be kept on until 2019 (Arriva somehow (!) got a contract extension) by which time they'd be the oldest in service (bar the RMs and assuming nothing else changes). Arriva appear to be struggling with reliability as buses keep failing in service - 3 VLAs off the road yesterday, 2 VLAs failed the other Saturday. 8. The Sunday daytime frequency is inadequate. Many buses are overloaded and parents with buggies often cannot board buses as the buggy bay is stuffed full. They can end up waiting 30-45 mins. The current closure of the Barking - Gospel Oak line at weekends is already putting strain on the route. It will get worse in 3 weeks when half the line closes. My long held view is that buses should run every 12 mins during Sunday shopping hours. 9. I think TfL don't give a d*mn about the route. They say things are adequate but they certainly are not. Unless TfL has negotiated a QI extension "bonus" with Arriva to give a better service from March 2017 then we're lumbered until 2019 (barring the planned weekend night service) with the same service level. Meanwhile we will soon have a load of Mini Holland cycle works along Ferry Lane, Forest Road and at Blackhorse and Bell Corner junctions. This will narrow an already narrow section of route even further and probably add another 10 speed tables reducing the route to a complete crawl in the long term and causing utter chaos in the short term. I expect TfL will reduce the frequency even further to cope with the delays but not adding any extra resources. 10. Others on here have suggested the long term fix, in terms of adding capacity, is to increase the frequency to x8 M-S pks and daytimes, x12 eves and Sundays. I think that's possibly a bit of overkill off peak although I support better eve & Sun frequencies. In the light of all of the above issues my use of the route has declined sharply - I used to use it over 10 times a week, now it's down to 2 jnys a week. You did ask!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 20:49:38 GMT
N9 - When first introduced, to replace the N65/92 , it ran every 30 mins on the common section with an hourly bus either taking the Ham section , or the Teddington section. The buses leaving the West End were always packed. and before it was all changed the frequency went to every 15 mins between the West end and Putney Bridge. N97 - I always preferred this route doing the Heathrow runs. It seemed to make more sense as it serves more of the Hotel area around South Kensington and mirrors the Piccadilly Line more than the new N9 in Central London. Kingston , in 1992 it had the N14.N87 and N65/92. On Fri/Sat nights, 11 West End bound trips were scheduled on the N65/92, 8 on the N14 ( of which 5 started from Chessington) and only 5 on the N87 ( which then started at Hampton Court) Intestingly now, the only West end link is the N87 at every 10 mins Fri/Sat nights. This mirrors the SWT service via Raynes Park , Wimbledon , Wandsworth and Clapham Junc so makes sense in that respect. But a quicker route would be an extension of the (n)85 from Putney Bridge into the West End following the 22 route perhaps... but thats for another topic. Thank You for this. You have brought back many memories. I forgot about the old N87, with its extension from Streatham/Tooting Broadway to Surbiton Station. Instead of an N85, how about the old N14 route is reinstated to run between TCR and Kingston. |
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Post by planesandtrains on May 18, 2016 21:02:02 GMT
Not quite decades but I have been using the 33 over the 11 years. And daily to and from school on the same route in the past 6. Most unexpected buses to turn up on me: The DR class in the early 2000's The Transbus E200 When NCP Challenger took over the route When Optare Versa's started turning up on the 33 a few years ago.
Also remember many countless journeys from when I was a toddler in the early 2000's on the 9 with its RMs/RMLs, probably the time that stands out most was when the bus broke down. Also have started using the 490/H22/110 group more frequently after a few family issues |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2016 22:29:47 GMT
N9 - When first introduced, to replace the N65/92 , it ran every 30 mins on the common section with an hourly bus either taking the Ham section , or the Teddington section. The buses leaving the West End were always packed. and before it was all changed the frequency went to every 15 mins between the West end and Putney Bridge. N97 - I always preferred this route doing the Heathrow runs. It seemed to make more sense as it serves more of the Hotel area around South Kensington and mirrors the Piccadilly Line more than the new N9 in Central London. Kingston , in 1992 it had the N14.N87 and N65/92. On Fri/Sat nights, 11 West End bound trips were scheduled on the N65/92, 8 on the N14 ( of which 5 started from Chessington) and only 5 on the N87 ( which then started at Hampton Court) Intestingly now, the only West end link is the N87 at every 10 mins Fri/Sat nights. This mirrors the SWT service via Raynes Park , Wimbledon , Wandsworth and Clapham Junc so makes sense in that respect. But a quicker route would be an extension of the (n)85 from Putney Bridge into the West End following the 22 route perhaps... but thats for another topic. Thank You for this. You have brought back many memories. I forgot about the old N87, with its extension from Streatham/Tooting Broadway to Surbiton Station. Instead of an N85, how about the old N14 route is reinstated to run between TCR and Kingston. N14 could in theory replace the night service on the 85 |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 23:43:53 GMT
It would be interesting to know Snoggle, what you think of 123 in terms of, has it improved? If so has it improved at great enough rate? Does it still need further improvements? Where there any missed opportunities to improve/change the service over the years? and how you rank the compared to other services you may use more regularly. I used to use 123 for 8 years travelling to school and Sixth Form (when it was run by First and Arriva when it changed over). I haven't used it on a regular basis for a few years now. I had a perception that was great in the mornings, lousy come the evening. I remember the days of standing in the wet and rain my school uniform on Woodford Avenue and waiting an hour or more for a bus home It always seemed like one of those routes that got left behind, whilst every other service around received investment. I remember when the 179 had a frequency uplift and brand spanking new Tridents, whilst 123 still sported the same old yellow high step machines and ancient timetable. 275 was also in that bracket for me...... I know things have changed a lot since, but I have moved from the area so it would good to know if and how things have changed? I'll try not to go into rant mode A few comments below. 1. I think Arriva do a better job than First London did. Running from a garage mid route seems much better than running from a garage remote from one end of the route. I haven't had to wait 48 minutes for a bus under Arriva. However some of Arriva's service management decisions leave a lot to be desired. 2. We've seen no demonstrable frequency improvement other than a better evening service in 2006. 3. We have had a "temporary" timetable on the route for over 3 years with a stupid x11 mins headway. I consider this to be unacceptable. 4. We have far too much variation around headway performance - too many 15-20-25 min gaps at random times of the day. 5. The route is completely overloaded with schools and college traffic through Waltham Forest. You can't board buses at some stops for 40-60 min periods. Peak periods can also be extremely difficult with overloaded buses. Patronage has risen by 40% over 15 years - not as big as some other routes but still over 2m extra pass jnys. When you compare the 123's patronage and service levels with other routes carrying the same numbers of people it has the worst service levels in London. Routes 35 and 37 are similarly under resourced for their similar patronage levels but have better Sunday frequencies (37 does) than the 123 has. 6. There are endemic performance issues (bunched buses at school times) which neither the operator nor TfL are prepared to do anything about. Same thing happens every single school day. 7. We now have some of the oldest buses in London which may be kept on until 2019 (Arriva somehow (!) got a contract extension) by which time they'd be the oldest in service (bar the RMs and assuming nothing else changes). Arriva appear to be struggling with reliability as buses keep failing in service - 3 VLAs off the road yesterday, 2 VLAs failed the other Saturday. 8. The Sunday daytime frequency is inadequate. Many buses are overloaded and parents with buggies often cannot board buses as the buggy bay is stuffed full. They can end up waiting 30-45 mins. The current closure of the Barking - Gospel Oak line at weekends is already putting strain on the route. It will get worse in 3 weeks when half the line closes. My long held view is that buses should run every 12 mins during Sunday shopping hours. 9. I think TfL don't give a d*mn about the route. They say things are adequate but they certainly are not. Unless TfL has negotiated a QI extension "bonus" with Arriva to give a better service from March 2017 then we're lumbered until 2019 (barring the planned weekend night service) with the same service level. Meanwhile we will soon have a load of Mini Holland cycle works along Ferry Lane, Forest Road and at Blackhorse and Bell Corner junctions. This will narrow an already narrow section of route even further and probably add another 10 speed tables reducing the route to a complete crawl in the long term and causing utter chaos in the short term. I expect TfL will reduce the frequency even further to cope with the delays but not adding any extra resources. 10. Others on here have suggested the long term fix, in terms of adding capacity, is to increase the frequency to x8 M-S pks and daytimes, x12 eves and Sundays. I think that's possibly a bit of overkill off peak although I support better eve & Sun frequencies. In the light of all of the above issues my use of the route has declined sharply - I used to use it over 10 times a week, now it's down to 2 jnys a week. You did ask! Thanks Snoggle, sounds like the 123 is still the runt of the TfL litter! |
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My mates thought I was crazy going for the 25 every single time we went to the West End; but sitting on the solo seat close to the driver, hearing the roar of the bus taking 150 passengers to their end journey & using buses over trains cause it was free for kids; lool I had a blast on that route!!
A few comments below.
However some of Arriva's service management decisions leave a lot to be desired.
