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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 5, 2018 15:01:30 GMT
Are figures for TfL cycle hire available ? I think a quick win would be WiFi available on TfL bus network. Also think a redesign of some longer routes coming out of capital making some peak trips limited stop may also encourage commuters / shoppers. Eg 18X Euston - Euston Underpass - Marylebone Rd - Paddington Green - Little Venice - non stop A40 - Hanger Lane -N Circular - Stonebridge Park - line of route to Sudbury I really fail to see how WiFi will attract people onto buses, most people have data plans these days and most of the time these tend to be more reliable as well as the fact TfL will no doubt need a sponsor, and this will riddle the phone with ads when WiFi is being used. It made sense on the Underground as there's no signal down there however I really just think it'll not make a huge difference on the buses, and this is coming from someone who is probably on his phone 24/7.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 5, 2018 16:02:46 GMT
Are figures for TfL cycle hire available ? I think a quick win would be WiFi available on TfL bus network. Also think a redesign of some longer routes coming out of capital making some peak trips limited stop may also encourage commuters / shoppers. Eg 18X Euston - Euston Underpass - Marylebone Rd - Paddington Green - Little Venice - non stop A40 - Hanger Lane -N Circular - Stonebridge Park - line of route to Sudbury Yes - cycle hires per day, since 2010, are available via this link. You can preview the data online or download all of it and then do your analysis. I am not convinced wifi on buses are any great bonus in London given the scale of smartphone uptake and people already paying for data service. Also I suspect the extent of longer distance bus travel is lower in London than in some other areas where express / longer distance routes afford passengers a genuine opportunity to benefit from wifi, power sockets, posh seats and tables as you see on the top notch buses elsewhere in England. Clearly that's not universal but not every Arriva or Go Ahead bus outside London has wifi and power sockets. Only their "best", highest earning well used routes get the "posh" treatment. I can't see the point of putting wifi on little routes like the W11, W12, 385 etc. Waste of time. I've not seen anything from passenger research that says that what London bus passengers (actual or potential) want is wifi. Faster, more reliable journeys and not dawdling around "waiting time" are likely to be the key priorities.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 16:18:59 GMT
Are figures for TfL cycle hire available ? I think a quick win would be WiFi available on TfL bus network. Also think a redesign of some longer routes coming out of capital making some peak trips limited stop may also encourage commuters / shoppers. Eg 18X Euston - Euston Underpass - Marylebone Rd - Paddington Green - Little Venice - non stop A40 - Hanger Lane -N Circular - Stonebridge Park - line of route to Sudbury Yes - cycle hires per day, since 2010, are available via this link. You can preview the data online or download all of it and then do your analysis. I am not convinced wifi on buses are any great bonus in London given the scale of smartphone uptake and people already paying for data service. Also I suspect the extent of longer distance bus travel is lower in London than in some other areas where express / longer distance routes afford passengers a genuine opportunity to benefit from wifi, power sockets, posh seats and tables as you see on the top notch buses elsewhere in England. Clearly that's not universal but not every Arriva or Go Ahead bus outside London has wifi and power sockets. Only their "best", highest earning well used routes get the "posh" treatment. I can't see the point of putting wifi on little routes like the W11, W12, 385 etc. Waste of time. I've not seen anything from passenger research that says that what London bus passengers (actual or potential) want is wifi. Faster, more reliable journeys and not dawdling around "waiting time" are likely to be the key priorities. Will have to disagree. Data is costly which is saved if using WiFi. Also handy for younger people who are on limited data plans like family sharing accounts. Also the drivers would benefit. When patronage is dropping as it is, it is a simple way of making bus travel a bit more attractive.
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Post by snowman on Apr 5, 2018 16:48:09 GMT
Yes - cycle hires per day, since 2010, are available via this link. You can preview the data online or download all of it and then do your analysis. I am not convinced wifi on buses are any great bonus in London given the scale of smartphone uptake and people already paying for data service. Also I suspect the extent of longer distance bus travel is lower in London than in some other areas where express / longer distance routes afford passengers a genuine opportunity to benefit from wifi, power sockets, posh seats and tables as you see on the top notch buses elsewhere in England. Clearly that's not universal but not every Arriva or Go Ahead bus outside London has wifi and power sockets. Only their "best", highest earning well used routes get the "posh" treatment. I can't see the point of putting wifi on little routes like the W11, W12, 385 etc. Waste of time. I've not seen anything from passenger research that says that what London bus passengers (actual or potential) want is wifi. Faster, more reliable journeys and not dawdling around "waiting time" are likely to be the key priorities. Will have to disagree. Data is costly which is saved if using WiFi. Also handy for younger people who are on limited data plans like family sharing accounts. Also the drivers would benefit. When patronage is dropping as it is, it is a simple way of making bus travel a bit more attractive. There is irony in TfLs approach to bus WiFi Regularly it pronounces that no more Countdown screens are needed as passengers/customers have smartphones. But as you need a data plan to get this info, it is contrary to fitting it to bus. To be honest speeding up journeys by sorting traffic lights would attract more. On Easter Monday morning I drove to central London (rare these days) and it took 50 seconds for traffic lights at deserted junction to change to green, (including pointless 9 seconds after the pedestrian countdown got to zero). Stupidly slow journeys just discourage use.
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Post by cl54 on Apr 5, 2018 17:19:32 GMT
Will have to disagree. Data is costly which is saved if using WiFi. Also handy for younger people who are on limited data plans like family sharing accounts. Also the drivers would benefit. When patronage is dropping as it is, it is a simple way of making bus travel a bit more attractive. There is irony in TfLs approach to bus WiFi Regularly it pronounces that no more Countdown screens are needed as passengers/customers have smartphones. But as you need a data plan to get this info, it is contrary to fitting it to bus. To be honest speeding up journeys by sorting traffic lights would attract more. On Easter Monday morning I drove to central London (rare these days) and it took 50 seconds for traffic lights at deserted junction to change to green, (including pointless 9 seconds after the pedestrian countdown got to zero). Stupidly slow journeys just discourage use. Next bus information is available by text so usually bundled with the calls package. Spending money on getting buses equipped with wifi can hardly be justified in times of severe budget cuts. Not sure why bus drivers would benefit. The TfL bus radios are being upgraded to a much better standard with other comms links which will assist bus operation.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 5, 2018 17:56:35 GMT
There is irony in TfLs approach to bus WiFi Regularly it pronounces that no more Countdown screens are needed as passengers/customers have smartphones. But as you need a data plan to get this info, it is contrary to fitting it to bus. To be honest speeding up journeys by sorting traffic lights would attract more. On Easter Monday morning I drove to central London (rare these days) and it took 50 seconds for traffic lights at deserted junction to change to green, (including pointless 9 seconds after the pedestrian countdown got to zero). Stupidly slow journeys just discourage use. Next bus information is available by text so usually bundled with the calls package. Spending money on getting buses equipped with wifi can hardly be justified in times of severe budget cuts. Not sure why bus drivers would benefit. The TfL bus radios are being upgraded to a much better standard with other comms links which will assist bus operation. Does anyone actually use the text service - most people I know use an app instead which not only gives you bus times but also offers other things such as a journey planner, train & tube times, status updates for Tube, Overground, Tram DLR, etc. This requires data which not everyone can either afford or have the know how, time and/or effort to increase their data by bartering with rip off service providers. I don't think WiFi will simply be a magic solution to bringing back people (reducing congestion significantly and improving journey times would do that) but it should still very much be considered - I accept the cost argument but I still wouldn't discount it entirely. Entire networks of routes in places have WiFi fitted such as all Abellio Surrey services before it was destroyed, Green Bus which operated school services & all but one Metrobus route (the 3) has WiFi so it seems it's not just being offered to particular routes whilst USB sockets are already in place of certain electric buses in London already.
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Post by sid on Apr 5, 2018 18:11:12 GMT
Yes - cycle hires per day, since 2010, are available via this link. You can preview the data online or download all of it and then do your analysis. I am not convinced wifi on buses are any great bonus in London given the scale of smartphone uptake and people already paying for data service. Also I suspect the extent of longer distance bus travel is lower in London than in some other areas where express / longer distance routes afford passengers a genuine opportunity to benefit from wifi, power sockets, posh seats and tables as you see on the top notch buses elsewhere in England. Clearly that's not universal but not every Arriva or Go Ahead bus outside London has wifi and power sockets. Only their "best", highest earning well used routes get the "posh" treatment. I can't see the point of putting wifi on little routes like the W11, W12, 385 etc. Waste of time. I've not seen anything from passenger research that says that what London bus passengers (actual or potential) want is wifi. Faster, more reliable journeys and not dawdling around "waiting time" are likely to be the key priorities. Will have to disagree. Data is costly which is saved if using WiFi. Also handy for younger people who are on limited data plans like family sharing accounts. Also the drivers would benefit. When patronage is dropping as it is, it is a simple way of making bus travel a bit more attractive. I totally agree, TfL lagging behind the rest of the country again.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 5, 2018 19:05:50 GMT
Yes - cycle hires per day, since 2010, are available via this link. You can preview the data online or download all of it and then do your analysis. I am not convinced wifi on buses are any great bonus in London given the scale of smartphone uptake and people already paying for data service. Also I suspect the extent of longer distance bus travel is lower in London than in some other areas where express / longer distance routes afford passengers a genuine opportunity to benefit from wifi, power sockets, posh seats and tables as you see on the top notch buses elsewhere in England. Clearly that's not universal but not every Arriva or Go Ahead bus outside London has wifi and power sockets. Only their "best", highest earning well used routes get the "posh" treatment. I can't see the point of putting wifi on little routes like the W11, W12, 385 etc. Waste of time. I've not seen anything from passenger research that says that what London bus passengers (actual or potential) want is wifi. Faster, more reliable journeys and not dawdling around "waiting time" are likely to be the key priorities. Will have to disagree. Data is costly which is saved if using WiFi. Also handy for younger people who are on limited data plans like family sharing accounts. Also the drivers would benefit. When patronage is dropping as it is, it is a simple way of making bus travel a bit more attractive. Data isn't as costly as it may seem, there are many plans available which have very generous amounts of data for quite low prices and that's what many people use. Not to mention apps like SnapChat and WhatsApp don't use much data. I don't see anyone turning around and deciding to get on a bus just because it has WiFi. I know many of my friends who would fall into the "younger people" category don't even use WiFi on the underground as there's simply no point bar sending a few messages that barely use up your data allowance, most of the time even on buses the case is to just put in earphones and go into standby mode until the bus is at the required destination. Next bus information is available by text so usually bundled with the calls package. Spending money on getting buses equipped with wifi can hardly be justified in times of severe budget cuts. Not sure why bus drivers would benefit. The TfL bus radios are being upgraded to a much better standard with other comms links which will assist bus operation. Does anyone actually use the text service - most people I know use an app instead which not only gives you bus times but also offers other things such as a journey planner, train & tube times, status updates for Tube, Overground, Tram DLR, etc. This requires data which not everyone can either afford or have the know how, time and/or effort to increase their data by bartering with rip off service providers. The text service is a funny one, it's quite convenient but there seems to be a hidden charge where TfL charge you for the return text, I know when this service was initially introduced that was advertised but it isn't anymore and I imagine people stop using the text service when they look at their bill for the month, not to mention phones these days seem to be getting smarter so most people I know, including myself have my phone set up so that if it detects that we're waiting at a stop it provides a push notification about when the next buses are so you don't even have to press many buttons. I know Google Maps and CityMapper do this.
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Post by cl54 on Apr 5, 2018 21:45:24 GMT
The SMS plate on every bus stop promotes the text service.
Lots of people still use it.
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Post by rmz19 on Apr 6, 2018 0:19:22 GMT
What would be attractive is to implement effective Air Conditioning/Climate Control systems on all TFL buses within London whereby passengers would bask in comfortable conditions throughout the year, Summer in particular, rather than the pointless 'Air Cooling' systems we have now, though we all know TFL frown upon this idea as investing in beneficial ideas as such would 'burn a deep hole' in their pockets.
WiFi would be an added bonus too, though it can be argued it wouldn't be enticing enough to the extent of reversing the decline in ridership, it wouldn't hurt nonetheless.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 6, 2018 1:13:01 GMT
What would be attractive is to implement effective Air Conditioning/Climate Control systems on all TFL buses within London whereby passengers would bask in comfortable conditions throughout the year, Summer in particular, rather than the pointless 'Air Cooling' systems we have now, though we all know TFL frown upon this idea as investing in beneficial ideas as such would 'burn a deep hole' in their pockets. WiFi would be an added bonus too, though it can be argued it wouldn't be enticing enough to the extent of reversing the decline in ridership, it wouldn't hurt nonetheless. They could save themselves a bit by removing air cooling from the spec altogether without replacement - air conditioning would add extra weight and is a bit overkill personally for a country where it's not often hitting the higher temperatures found in other parts of the world. I'd simply just install sliding windows on all London buses - they worked on the L's, M's & T's and the very first batch of Metroline Darts had them as well the DDL's having one by the wheelchair area. Not only do you save some money but you also drop some weight off buses as well by the removal of air cooling.
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Post by snowman on Apr 6, 2018 5:07:17 GMT
What would be attractive is to implement effective Air Conditioning/Climate Control systems on all TFL buses within London whereby passengers would bask in comfortable conditions throughout the year, Summer in particular, rather than the pointless 'Air Cooling' systems we have now, though we all know TFL frown upon this idea as investing in beneficial ideas as such would 'burn a deep hole' in their pockets. WiFi would be an added bonus too, though it can be argued it wouldn't be enticing enough to the extent of reversing the decline in ridership, it wouldn't hurt nonetheless. They could save themselves a bit by removing air cooling from the spec altogether without replacement - air conditioning would add extra weight and is a bit overkill personally for a country where it's not often hitting the higher temperatures found in other parts of the world. I'd simply just install sliding windows on all London buses - they worked on the L's, M's & T's and the very first batch of Metroline Darts had them as well the DDL's having one by the wheelchair area. Not only do you save some money but you also drop some weight off buses as well by the removal of air cooling. I’m going to disagree, the opening windows use to work because the bus speeds were high, so air blasted through. Fairly ineffective at current bus speeds. The other difference was that in the era you are quoting very few trains, cars, had a/c. Nowadays most alternative transport does which means hot, sticky buses are unlikely to be a transport choice where alternatives exist. Don’t forget a/c also clears excess moisture, so you need to add any day with steamed up windows to your count of days it is useful. Air cooling is a poor system (partly because it is badly ducted so very uneven)
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 12:19:01 GMT
What would be attractive is to implement effective Air Conditioning/Climate Control systems on all TFL buses within London whereby passengers would bask in comfortable conditions throughout the year, Summer in particular, rather than the pointless 'Air Cooling' systems we have now, though we all know TFL frown upon this idea as investing in beneficial ideas as such would 'burn a deep hole' in their pockets. WiFi would be an added bonus too, though it can be argued it wouldn't be enticing enough to the extent of reversing the decline in ridership, it wouldn't hurt nonetheless. Exactly that, it wouldn't hurt! I'm sure the many businesses that offer free WiFi haven't experienced a surge in customers but it may prevent them losing customers to a competitor who does offer free WiFi, it's expected nowadays. Are there any major bus operators outside of London who don't offer free WiFi?
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 6, 2018 12:35:28 GMT
What would be attractive is to implement effective Air Conditioning/Climate Control systems on all TFL buses within London whereby passengers would bask in comfortable conditions throughout the year, Summer in particular, rather than the pointless 'Air Cooling' systems we have now, though we all know TFL frown upon this idea as investing in beneficial ideas as such would 'burn a deep hole' in their pockets. WiFi would be an added bonus too, though it can be argued it wouldn't be enticing enough to the extent of reversing the decline in ridership, it wouldn't hurt nonetheless. Exactly that, it wouldn't hurt! I'm sure the many businesses that offer free WiFi haven't experienced a surge in customers but it may prevent them losing customers to a competitor who does offer free WiFi, it's expected nowadays. Are there any major bus operators outside of London who don't offer free WiFi? You said that offering WiFi does not gain customers, just does not lose any. TfL have no competition offering WiFi to lose customers to. Seems you have just made the perfect argument for TfL not to invest in wifi!
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Post by sid on Apr 6, 2018 12:44:20 GMT
Exactly that, it wouldn't hurt! I'm sure the many businesses that offer free WiFi haven't experienced a surge in customers but it may prevent them losing customers to a competitor who does offer free WiFi, it's expected nowadays. Are there any major bus operators outside of London who don't offer free WiFi? You said that offering WiFi does not gain customers, just does not lose any. TfL have no competition offering WiFi to lose customers to. Seems you have just made the perfect argument for TfL not to invest in wifi! TfL have got plenty of competition from Uber and such like and they should be looking at ways of making bus travel more attractive. Use buses in Nottingham or Reading and the standards are light years ahead of TfL spec.
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