|
Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2016 10:08:07 GMT
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Sept 30, 2016 10:57:58 GMT
I am not shocked at these changes. I had a feeling that TFL was going to do something like this for Crossrail. The 350 goes from single deck to double deck back to single deck again.
I had a feeling that TFL was going to double deck the U5.
|
|
|
Post by Connor on Sept 30, 2016 11:29:02 GMT
If TFL is saying the 350 is 'lightly used', why did it receive new hybrid DDs for its last contact renewal? Seems a bit late now. For selfish reasons, I really like the 350 as it is so am hoping TFL doesn't tamper with it. I have no opinion on the U5 proposals, I don't think I've ever used the route. Upgrading to DDs sounds good though. The 350 goes from single deck to double deck back to single deck again. + the H50 was single decker then converted to DDs.
|
|
|
Post by titan1mike on Sept 30, 2016 11:36:29 GMT
Two more consultations have appeared, one regarding bus routes serving Liverpool Street Bus Station and one regarding a swap round of routes 100/388 in the City.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 30, 2016 13:31:30 GMT
If TFL is saying the 350 is 'lightly used', why did it receive new hybrid DDs for its last contact renewal? Seems a bit late now. For selfish reasons, I really like the 350 as it is so am hoping TFL doesn't tamper with it. I have no opinion on the U5 proposals, I don't think I've ever used the route. Upgrading to DDs sounds good though. The 350 goes from single deck to double deck back to single deck again. + the H50 was single decker then converted to DDs. You make a very good point there in that why wasn't the consultation constructed before the recent tender of the 350 earlier this year. It's certainly not the busiest double deck route around why decide to alter it a few months into a new contract? As for the U5, guess we now know why all of a sudden the U routes (not including the U3 or U4) started seeing more decker appearances. Only used it a few times and I'm 50/50 towards it having deckers - always thought the U1, U2 or particularly, the U3 were more deserving of deckers myself but I await M1199 reaction
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Sept 30, 2016 14:10:14 GMT
In fairness to TFL they had no choice but to award the 350 with DDs as the Stockley park section requires it during the peaks and this section will remain DD with the U5.
It's intesting that this is the second time the inefficiency of using DDs on this corridor has been looked at as post 2008 the H50 was regarded as being very inefficient running weekdays only with DDS for pretty much 2 journeys a day that needed them, hence in 2008 the conversion to SD as the 350 with a DD retained on a peak journey. I'm guessing it was found that more than one peak journey needed more capacity hence the conversion in 2012 wuth buses off the 3.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2016 15:17:17 GMT
You make a very good point there in that why wasn't the consultation constructed before the recent tender of the 350 earlier this year. It's certainly not the busiest double deck route around why decide to alter it a few months into a new contract? Wasn't that consulation all about reducing weekend service levels on the 350? I've never used the route (or the U5) but it's clear from all the comments that double decks are wasted on it barring a tiny blip in the peak. Makes far more sense to knock it into shape once and for all. Looking at the numbers the U5 is by far the busier route although both services have continued to see growth in recent years (rather bucking the trend) so perhaps TfL are right to jig them around now prior to Crossrail. Clearly Hayes and Harlington will have a decent service level on Crossrail so may well pull in vast numbers of people (it's not exactly quiet now). It will be interesting to see what is planned for the H98 and E6 which were busy when I was last at H&H. Both carry vastly more people than either the U5 or 350.
|
|
|
Post by M1199 on Sept 30, 2016 20:42:50 GMT
Don't quite know what to make of this one!
Biggest thing for me that stands out is cutting the frequency along Botwell Common Rd. Whilst currently, it's not the busiest in terms of passenger loads, TfL expect demand to increase once Crossrail opens, then why would you cut frequency by almost half along a road that has literally 100's of homes in its vicinity, I know the U4 is a short walk away in Judge Heath Lane/Botwell Lane but try saying that to the elderly and those less able bodied. Whereas Dawley Rd/North Hyde Rd which had a dozen homes, 2 if that, keeps a 12min frequency. I might be in the wrong, but I don't understand the logic in that.
The 350, I see it go past my house, day in, day out, carrying almost next to nothing, something does need to be done about it. In its current form, other than T5 and Stockley Park, it doesn't go anywhere that people want to go, Hayes & West Drayton are dumps! (& I live in West Drayton) hence why loading are so poor! I'd say keep its current routing, convert it back to single deck (which should of happened at its tender renewal) reduce the frequency to x15min (I think cutting it to x20min on a weekday with SD is too drastic) and introduce Peak, with the flow additional short workings (like what happened with the H50 using a Trident/e400)
The U5, imo, doesn't need double decking, there's at least 2 more U routes deserving of double deckers (U3, hint hint, TfL)
I'll have to have a more in depth look at this when I have some more time on my hands!
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2016 6:11:36 GMT
Don't quite know what to make of this one! Biggest thing for me that stands out is cutting the frequency along Botwell Common Rd. Whilst currently, it's not the busiest in terms of passenger loads, TfL expect demand to increase once Crossrail opens, then why would you cut frequency by almost half along a road that has literally 100's of homes in its vicinity, I know the U4 is a short walk away in Judge Heath Lane/Botwell Lane but try saying that to the elderly and those less able bodied. Whereas Dawley Rd/North Hyde Rd which had a dozen homes, 2 if that, keeps a 12min frequency. I might be in the wrong, but I don't understand the logic in that. The 350, I see it go past my house, day in, day out, carrying almost next to nothing, something does need to be done about it. In its current form, other than T5 and Stockley Park, it doesn't go anywhere that people want to go, Hayes & West Drayton are dumps! (& I live in West Drayton) hence why loading are so poor! I'd say keep its current routing, convert it back to single deck (which should of happened at its tender renewal) reduce the frequency to x15min (I think cutting it to x20min on a weekday with SD is too drastic) and introduce Peak, with the flow additional short workings (like what happened with the H50 using a Trident/e400) The U5, imo, doesn't need double decking, there's at least 2 more U routes deserving of double deckers (U3, hint hint, TfL) I'll have to have a more in depth look at this when I have some more time on my hands! The U5 won't need double deckers now but it could need double deckers once Crossrail sorry the Queen Elizabeth Line arrives.
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Oct 2, 2016 9:56:10 GMT
This consultation may well have a bearing on the tender result of U routes for next May.
|
|
|
Post by southlondonbus on Oct 2, 2016 10:27:45 GMT
I wonder if the Elizabeth line will be used like Tramlink was section of routes removed and passengers urged to change on it if a bus/train hopper ticket was introduced. Like the 54 and 353 were chopped down with no overlapping routes introduced.
The 54 was arguably the worst example of trying to integrate modes and no doubt passengers were lost as a result. Ironically a desire to retain the 130 meant that Shirley Hills remains rather over bussed as the 466 was created to soley operate that section. LT could have done it differently and rerouted the 166 to west croydon and diverted the 130 to Caterham On the Hill at Croydon and never introduced the 466.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Oct 3, 2016 1:29:04 GMT
You make a very good point there in that why wasn't the consultation constructed before the recent tender of the 350 earlier this year. It's certainly not the busiest double deck route around why decide to alter it a few months into a new contract? Wasn't that consulation all about reducing weekend service levels on the 350? I've never used the route (or the U5) but it's clear from all the comments that double decks are wasted on it barring a tiny blip in the peak. Makes far more sense to knock it into shape once and for all. Looking at the numbers the U5 is by far the busier route although both services have continued to see growth in recent years (rather bucking the trend) so perhaps TfL are right to jig them around now prior to Crossrail. Clearly Hayes and Harlington will have a decent service level on Crossrail so may well pull in vast numbers of people (it's not exactly quiet now). It will be interesting to see what is planned for the H98 and E6 which were busy when I was last at H&H. Both carry vastly more people than either the U5 or 350. I think you misread my previous post - I merely stated my bemusement at altering a route's type of vehicle to single deckers a couple of months after a new contract began required to use double deckers. I happen to think the 350 can cope with single deckers but I'm a little surprised to see the U5 possibly gain deckers, given anytime I've been anywhere near Uxbridge, it's the U1, U2 & U3 that have been far busier. I suspect the H98 might be mooted for deckers as I've seen and used this route with heavy loadings before but the E6 could be tricky without some sort of route alteration to gain longer buses.
|
|
|
Post by M1199 on Oct 10, 2016 18:01:53 GMT
Caught a 350 this afternoon, just after school kicking out time, to my surprise, the downstairs was full and standing whilst upstairs only 1/3 seats were available. It only started emptying out once we were leaving West Drayton and entering Harmondsworth. That would of been fun on a single decker with a 20min frequency!
I would like to see the 350 extended somewhere. Possibly from T5 down to Staines or from Hayes up to Yeading Tescos - to take a bit of pressure off the E6.
The U5, I just can't see it requiring double deckers, even when Crossrail opens. It's busiest section, Uxbridge-Stockley Estate, has plenty of capacity for additional Crossrail traffic as the 222, U1 & U3 all share the same roads the U5 does, baring a couple (that aren't within walking distance) And between Stockley Estate and Hayes, I can't see 50-80 people wanting to catch a bus every 12 minutes!
If TfL want to double deck one of the U routes, it should be the U3, since the U4 moved out to HZ, it now see's up to 8 VPs/TEs at a time on the route and I've noticed more passengers are now starting to take advantage of this additional capacity.
|
|
|
Post by COBO on Oct 10, 2016 18:30:24 GMT
Caught a 350 this afternoon, just after school kicking out time, to my surprise, the downstairs was full and standing whilst upstairs only 1/3 seats were available. It only started emptying out once we were leaving West Drayton and entering Harmondsworth. That would of been fun on a single decker with a 20min frequency! I would like to see the 350 extended somewhere. Possibly from T5 down to Staines or from Hayes up to Yeading Tescos - to take a bit of pressure off the E6. The U5, I just can't see it requiring double deckers, even when Crossrail opens. It's busiest section, Uxbridge-Stockley Estate, has plenty of capacity for additional Crossrail traffic as the 222, U1 & U3 all share the same roads the U5 does, baring a couple (that aren't within walking distance) And between Stockley Estate and Hayes, I can't see 50-80 people wanting to catch a bus every 12 minutes! If TfL want to double deck one of the U routes, it should be the U3, since the U4 moved out to HZ, it now see's up to 8 VPs/TEs at a time on the route and I've noticed more passengers are now starting to take advantage of this additional capacity. But do you think that the 350 could cope with single deckers? I have a feeling that the U3 might go double deck next year.
|
|
|
Post by M1199 on Oct 10, 2016 19:24:12 GMT
Caught a 350 this afternoon, just after school kicking out time, to my surprise, the downstairs was full and standing whilst upstairs only 1/3 seats were available. It only started emptying out once we were leaving West Drayton and entering Harmondsworth. That would of been fun on a single decker with a 20min frequency! I would like to see the 350 extended somewhere. Possibly from T5 down to Staines or from Hayes up to Yeading Tescos - to take a bit of pressure off the E6. The U5, I just can't see it requiring double deckers, even when Crossrail opens. It's busiest section, Uxbridge-Stockley Estate, has plenty of capacity for additional Crossrail traffic as the 222, U1 & U3 all share the same roads the U5 does, baring a couple (that aren't within walking distance) And between Stockley Estate and Hayes, I can't see 50-80 people wanting to catch a bus every 12 minutes! If TfL want to double deck one of the U routes, it should be the U3, since the U4 moved out to HZ, it now see's up to 8 VPs/TEs at a time on the route and I've noticed more passengers are now starting to take advantage of this additional capacity. But do you think that the 350 could cope with single deckers? I have a feeling that the U3 might go double deck next year. Well, it did in the past (with an additional DD journey in Peaks) but that was with a 12min frequency. With passengers having the luxury of double deckers on a 12min frequency over the last 4 or so years, downgrading it to a 20min single decker service will make it a unattractive travel option, especially to those who require the Airport. I suppose, there's a number of options that TfL could go with: A-Keep it as it is B- 12min freq, Single Deck C- 15min freq, Double Deck D- 15min freq, Single Deck E- 20min freq, Double Deck F- 20min freq, Single Deck I would hope that it stays as option A, failing that then option D, even option E, however, as TfL always seem to get what they want, we'll see option F
|
|