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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 30, 2016 19:23:57 GMT
I don't know what TFL have been drinking lately, but It's a mystery how TFL have determined that patronage along the Aldwych - Liverpool Street has fallen, from what I regularly see the 11/15/23 are all rammed along this section and the former routes need as much as help as they can get. It's absolutely ridiculous that the 23 is being cut to Aldwych, as a result the 11 and 15 will be completely rammed. What I think is that Tfl are looking at the 11. 11 is an LT route, and many fare evade on it, this gives TfL an incorrect useage number much lower than the reality.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 30, 2016 19:53:45 GMT
I can forsee down the line a couple of extra 23 journies followed by some tinkering to the 70 (possible a couple of extra trips plus a DD coversion) to see off the 7 once the Pedestrianisation of Oxford Street.
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Post by ibus246 on Sept 30, 2016 20:57:42 GMT
I don't know what TFL have been drinking lately, but It's a mystery how TFL have determined that patronage along the Aldwych - Liverpool Street has fallen, from what I regularly see the 11/15/23 are all rammed along this section and the former routes need as much as help as they can get. It's absolutely ridiculous that the 23 is being cut to Aldwych, as a result the 11 and 15 will be completely rammed. What I think is that Tfl are looking at the 11. 11 is an LT route, and many fare evade on it, this gives TfL an incorrect useage number much lower than the reality. How much lower annually would you predict?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 30, 2016 22:44:17 GMT
I don't know what TFL have been drinking lately, but It's a mystery how TFL have determined that patronage along the Aldwych - Liverpool Street has fallen, from what I regularly see the 11/15/23 are all rammed along this section and the former routes need as much as help as they can get. It's absolutely ridiculous that the 23 is being cut to Aldwych, as a result the 11 and 15 will be completely rammed. What I think is that Tfl are looking at the 11. 11 is an LT route, and many fare evade on it, this gives TfL an incorrect useage number much lower than the reality. The irony in all this is that the 23 is the busier route of the two but has lost 4m pass jnys over a number of years. The 11 has fared a bit better but last year lost nearly 800k pass jnys. I assume nightmarish traffic conditions contributed to that. Removing the 23 from the City also means enforced NB4L travel for a lot of people - ugh! By the time TfL have converted the 76 to NB4L and rerouted the 388 there will be very few conventional deckers running on all or part of the Bank - St Pauls - Aldwych axis. Only the 4, 26 and 172 and 2 of those don't touch Bank. If you really want to stop people using buses TfL really have now found the ideal combination of factors.
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Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2016 5:58:29 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street.
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Post by northken on Oct 1, 2016 8:26:10 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. All that tinkering doesn't really make the 23 the 23 anymore! If the 23 is cut back to Aldwych (hopefully not) and 'extended' to East Acton then I reckon most punters would just consider it an extended and renumbered 7. Utterly ridiculous idea to cut the 23 to Aldwych. It is such a useful link from Ladbroke Grove and Paddington to St Paul's, Bank etc. With that link broken I'm struggling to see what its purpose will be. Interesting how there won't even be an N23. Night frequency along that section will be cut in half. I really hope these 'proposals' don't go ahead.
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Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2016 8:51:24 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. All that tinkering doesn't really make the 23 the 23 anymore! If the 23 is cut back to Aldwych (hopefully not) and 'extended' to East Acton then I reckon most punters would just consider it an extended and renumbered 7. Utterly ridiculous idea to cut the 23 to Aldwych. It is such a useful link from Ladbroke Grove and Paddington to St Paul's, Bank etc. With that link broken I'm struggling to see what its purpose will be. Interesting how there won't even be an N23. Night frequency along that section will be cut in half. I really hope these 'proposals' don't go ahead. Well I always had a feeling that they would remove the 23 from Liverpool Street to remove competition from Crossrail aka the Queen Elizebeth Line. But I thought that they would kept the Aldwych to Bank routing and divert it to London Bridge to create a new link and the 11 could still be assisted.
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Post by mondraker275 on Oct 1, 2016 9:02:45 GMT
The beginning of the 'hopper' used as an excuse to separate 'parallel' routes.
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Post by rmz19 on Oct 1, 2016 11:02:32 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. I suspect this may indeed happen, as the 23 would no longer have much use as an Aldwych - Westbourne Park route. TFL would have to increase the frequencies of the 11 and 15 considerably during the peaks and weekends, and possibly a modest increase to the 26, to compensate for the curtailment of the 23.
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Post by snoggle on Oct 1, 2016 12:42:32 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. I suspect this may indeed happen, as the 23 would no longer have much use as an Aldwych - Westbourne Park route. TFL would have to increase the frequencies of the 11 and 15 considerably during the peaks and weekends, and possibly a modest increase to the 26, to compensate for the curtailment of the 23. TfL aren't proposing to increase anything so they presumably believe there is enough "spare" capacity to handle the 23's passengers east of Aldwych. To quote Mr Meldrew "I don't believe it". Just going back and checking the consultation I see it refers to route 23 passengers being able to use the Hopper ticket. Well unfortunately TfL haven't checked their own timetables. If you board at Westbourne Park or Ladbroke Grove then the journey is scheduled at over an hour during shopping hours. Therefore if you want to travel east of Aldwych you will, in future, pay two fares. What an idiotic mistake to make.
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Post by 700101 on Oct 1, 2016 15:30:19 GMT
I reckon the 47 will have to be increased to help with demand as I don't see both 35 and 47 handling the demand.
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Post by twobellstogo on Oct 1, 2016 21:47:27 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. Assuming the 23 will die east of Marble Arch on pedestrianisation of Oxford Street, a diversion of the 70 via the Kensal Road section of 23, past X garage and back to current line of route could kill the 23 completely. Not at all saying it's a good idea, but it's certainly a live possibility in my eyes.
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Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2016 22:03:18 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. Assuming the 23 will die east of Marble Arch on pedestrianisation of Oxford Street, a diversion of the 70 via the Kensal Road section of 23, past X garage and back to current line of route could kill the 23 completely. Not at all saying it's a good idea, but it's certainly a live possibility in my eyes. It's good idea.If the 295 hadn't of gone to Metroline I would of suggested that for it to have been extended to Westbourne Park via Kensal Road to replace the 23 but you idea is better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2016 22:03:25 GMT
I wonder if TFL are planning to withdraw the 7 and replace it by extending the 23 westwards after removing it from Liverpool Street. I think you and twobellstogo have plausible ideas. An Aldwych to East Acton routeing could make sense (via piccadilly with Ox St pedestrianisation on the horizon). A shortened 23 and likely shortened 7 virtually running together in a few years time wouldn't make much sense. Westbourne Park could still be done by diverting something like the 452. This is as I've mentioned time and again another nod to reducing bus routeings in central London, particularly parallel runs. NOT that I think it's a good idea at all but there we are. Hopper fare has been mentioned and how it will fail here but I think TfL are aware of that and couldn't really care less, the hopper was always a gimmick to get gullible Londoners onside by knowing that they would save money (well, SOMETIMES!)
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Post by redbus on Feb 17, 2017 23:46:32 GMT
Does anyone know what the delay is in concluding this consultation? The consultation states that TfL hoped to make some of the changes in January, some starting from March and now it's the middle of February. Clearly TfL must have expected the consultation result to be available by now given this.
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