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Post by bengady3 on Nov 25, 2016 12:17:46 GMT
i think I just saw something about a route 425 extension to Ilford
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Post by Green Kitten on Nov 25, 2016 12:27:23 GMT
23 gets the shove out of Central London, never expected TfL would lash it out, even for a well known historical route The 23 as it is today is hardly historic - it was only introduced in 1992!
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Post by Unorm on Nov 25, 2016 13:01:09 GMT
23 gets the shove out of Central London, never expected TfL would lash it out, even for a well known historical route The 23 as it is today is hardly historic - it was only introduced in 1992! Ah my mistake, confused it with the previous 23
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Post by danorak on Nov 25, 2016 14:10:02 GMT
What I would add is that we need to remember this is only part of the story. We still have the main Crossrail changes to come plus the changes needed to pedestrianise Oxford Street. This consultation only reduces the service. So the 7 is still likely to disappear in its current form, the 25 is still likely to be lost west of TCR and so on. This is only preparing the ground for what's to come. Don't know, but the 23 proposal seems very Crossrailish to me… And I don't know if TfL would say "use 7/98" for replacement if they were to withdraw it. Having had a more leisurely read of the text, I think you may well have a point about Crossrail - if so, there would be far fewer changes in Central London for this than I would have anticipated. Or maybe TfL are not quite showing all their cards yet. I am reading this with a half a mind on what the post-pedestrianisation network will look like. Where will the 390 be sent? North via the Euston Road or south via Piccadilly?
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Post by Connor on Nov 25, 2016 14:27:54 GMT
I have to say the editing on the majority of the maps is plain lazy. Found it a chore to actually read the maps whereas I usually never have a problem. Very happy with changes to the 6's routing (which I suggested years ago), the 22 is shown as using the Hyde Park underpass (which more routes should use), and most of the other changes. But like Sid pointed, a seemingly massive cut to routes to Victoria is disappointing, the C2 is useless once again, the 25 hasn't been cut back to Bank/St Paul's, the 8 has not been extended to Stratford, the 36 has not been cut back to Paddington and extended to Lewisham, no new routes from Victoria to Vauxhall...not enough through routes, and too many routes are terminating at Oxford Circus, where interchange between different routes is horrific at the best times. I look forward to TFL shreading it's own bus network to smithereens, but hopefully, we'll end up with something better than the mess we're being presented with at the moment!
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Post by westhamgeezer on Nov 25, 2016 15:02:49 GMT
I have to say the editing on the majority of the maps is plain lazy. Found it a chore to actually read the maps whereas I usually never have a problem. Very happy with changes to the 6's routing (which I suggested years ago), the 22 is shown as using the Hyde Park underpass (which more routes should use), and most of the other changes. But like Sid pointed, a seemingly massive cut to routes to Victoria is disappointing, the C2 is useless once again, the 25 hasn't been cut back to Bank/St Paul's, the 8 has not been extended to Stratford, the 36 has not been cut back to Paddington and extended to Lewisham, no new routes from Victoria to Vauxhall...not enough through routes, and too many routes are terminating at Oxford Circus, where interchange between different routes is horrific at the best times. I look forward to TFL shreading it's own bus network to smithereens, but hopefully, we'll end up with something better than the mess we're being presented with at the moment! If that's the case it can't serve Hyde Park Corner station as shown on the spider map
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Post by Connor on Nov 25, 2016 15:13:37 GMT
I have to say the editing on the majority of the maps is plain lazy. Found it a chore to actually read the maps whereas I usually never have a problem. Very happy with changes to the 6's routing (which I suggested years ago), the 22 is shown as using the Hyde Park underpass (which more routes should use), and most of the other changes. But like Sid pointed, a seemingly massive cut to routes to Victoria is disappointing, the C2 is useless once again, the 25 hasn't been cut back to Bank/St Paul's, the 8 has not been extended to Stratford, the 36 has not been cut back to Paddington and extended to Lewisham, no new routes from Victoria to Vauxhall...not enough through routes, and too many routes are terminating at Oxford Circus, where interchange between different routes is horrific at the best times. I look forward to TFL shreading it's own bus network to smithereens, but hopefully, we'll end up with something better than the mess we're being presented with at the moment! If that's the case it can't serve Hyde Park Corner station as shown on the spider map The same spider map which shows the 19 & 22 as not serving Knightsbridge Station...
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Post by sid on Nov 25, 2016 15:20:14 GMT
I have to say the editing on the majority of the maps is plain lazy. Found it a chore to actually read the maps whereas I usually never have a problem. Very happy with changes to the 6's routing (which I suggested years ago), the 22 is shown as using the Hyde Park underpass (which more routes should use), and most of the other changes. But like Sid pointed, a seemingly massive cut to routes to Victoria is disappointing, the C2 is useless once again, the 25 hasn't been cut back to Bank/St Paul's, the 8 has not been extended to Stratford, the 36 has not been cut back to Paddington and extended to Lewisham, no new routes from Victoria to Vauxhall...not enough through routes, and too many routes are terminating at Oxford Circus, where interchange between different routes is horrific at the best times. I look forward to TFL shreading it's own bus network to smithereens, but hopefully, we'll end up with something better than the mess we're being presented with at the moment! Certainly most buses I see in the morning peak towards Hyde Park Corner from Victoria in the morning peak look pretty packed, I just don't see the point in the 73/390 change, if the Notting Hill Gate section is no longer needed then just terminate the 390 at Oxford Circus. It seems it has only been proposed to make the 73 shorter and with the C2 gone as well it's a reduction of about 12 buses per hour to and from Victoria !
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Post by M1104 on Nov 25, 2016 15:29:12 GMT
But like Sid pointed, a seemingly massive cut to routes to Victoria is disappointing, the C2 is useless once again, It may've been an ideal route to extend 'beyond' Victoria via Chelsea Bridge to Battersea Power Station. So much for that remote possibility now. If it weren't for the Albany Road routing the C2 may as well be withdrawn with the 88 extended to Parliament Hill Fields.
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Post by danorak on Nov 25, 2016 15:33:54 GMT
If that's the case it can't serve Hyde Park Corner station as shown on the spider map The same spider map which shows the 19 & 22 as not serving Knightsbridge Station... I understand the attraction of spider maps but I find them utterly incomprehensible: too many colours in too small a space. The ones in this document are particularly hopeless. More broadly (and perhaps for another thread), have spider maps outlived their usefulness? In the brave new world of the Hopper, it's now more important than ever before to know what other routes you can connect onto. Spider maps only show through services.
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Post by T.R. on Nov 25, 2016 15:39:19 GMT
Wow. Just wow.
Has there been a Central London bus change this extensive since 1992's "Catch The Central Changes"?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 15:59:21 GMT
TfL must be satisfied the Marble Arch - Notting Hill Gate is covered sufficiently by the 94 & 148. I think I agree there, but will be interesting when carnival comes to town !
Like the 23 idea.
Actually I can't see any major problem, I was expecting far worse to be honest.
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Post by 6HP502C on Nov 25, 2016 16:00:40 GMT
The 3 and 6 proposals sound quite positive but the N2 is just standardisation for the sake of it and quite ridiculous if the 82 is going to become 24 hour! To be fair the N2 is duplicated by the N136 for some distance. People going from Trafalgar Square/Whitehall to Victora, Vauxhall, Stockwell, Brixton or Crystal Palace have other options so I won't protest too much about the removal from Trafalgar Square. That said, I don't think there is any point in rerouting it to Marylebone - between the 36 and 453, people heading south already have provisions. I seriously doubt there's any demand at night along Park Lane or Baker Street to justify this. If the resources are there to extend the route, I'd sooner see a night service introduced to Croydon via Norwood Junction, which would benefit more people. Also, there are still some mistakes in that map. I can't see the 3 running via both Strand (Southampton Street) and Charing Cross Road.
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Post by sid on Nov 25, 2016 16:05:42 GMT
The 3 and 6 proposals sound quite positive but the N2 is just standardisation for the sake of it and quite ridiculous if the 82 is going to become 24 hour! To be fair the N2 is duplicated by the N136 for some distance. People going from Trafalgar Square/Whitehall to Victora, Vauxhall, Stockwell, Brixton or Crystal Palace have other options so I won't protest too much about this one. That said, I don't see any point in rerouting it to Marylebone - between the 36 and 453, people heading south already have provisions. If the resources are there to extend the route, I'd sooner see a night service introduced to Croydon via Norwood Junction, which would benefit more people. I can see the case for withdrawing the Trafalgar Square section which seems poorly used but it may as well be curtailed at Victoria, alternatively just merge the 2 and 82 into one route at night, but as you say an extension to Croydon via Norwood Junction would be far more useful.
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Post by redwave on Nov 25, 2016 16:35:58 GMT
Given the PVR reduction if most of the scheme goes ahead, I suppose it's likely operators might need fewer drivers? I'd imagine that some of the changes will coincide with contract renewal or breaks.
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