|
Post by sid on Jun 17, 2017 12:37:06 GMT
That could be used as an argument against just about anything, the current one way system is awful and change is long overdue. How is it awful? It works pretty fine and I know the area quite well. Just the awful environment it creates, I think one way systems like this really have had their day.
|
|
|
Post by joefrombow on Jun 17, 2017 16:56:35 GMT
How is it awful? It works pretty fine and I know the area quite well. Just the awful environment it creates, I think one way systems like this really have had their day. I don't know , you used to have two one way systems at Aldgate that got changed the traffic in that little area around there specifically in Peaks is Terrible now especially if there is a major delay somewhere else i.e Blackwall Tunnel has a issue or something its Horrendous for example the Warton Road Entrance/Exit to Westfield was closed the other day as there was a concert on over the QE2 Park the Delays were reaching back to Mile End a 10 minute journey took about 45 minutes so add on the additional Traffic lights/Timing changes that will have to be in place plus there still is a possibility of them getting rid of Bow Flyover has been proposed which I don't think would achieve anything btw except more traffic and poorer air quality I personally don't think it would be a good idea to change it I do see the plus sides of it making it simple and easy for passengers to get of tube/train and jump on the Bus but in the long run can't see it doing any good just my opinion .
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 23, 2018 10:30:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Sept 13, 2018 17:57:02 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 13, 2018 18:21:38 GMT
I notice that bus stop C looks to be abandoned on that during the day with only the N8 using it at night. The 241 meanwhile doesn't seem to have any stop in the bus station heading towards Westfield according to that leaflet while a 241 sticker has appeared at bus stop C in the bus station. Also looks like the 158 will serve new stop P from the 17th while the 257 and 241 don't join in until the 22nd October. Wonder what that's all about I'm glad TfL publicity is doing well.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Sept 13, 2018 19:59:02 GMT
I know this is not anything new but I think much of these gyratory changes really are pretty awful if you're a bus passenger. The choice of stops is reduced. Interchange, unless at the bus station, is worsened. Shopkeepers and businesses on the Broadway may end up with rather less footfall than they currently get. If you want a bus towards Plaistow you will end up trekking to the bus station or having to cross the entire Broadway to Tramway Avenue. One advantage of the old layout was that there were stops on the shopping centre side of the Broadway for these services but that's gone now and people will be forced to cross a 4 lane highway. I also note that we have bus stops directly opposite each other at Tramway Avenue - can't wait to see how that works. I think the current situation is that there is only one for services heading towards the bus station / Stratford City. An awful lot of buses per hour are going to be using new bus stop L. I also note that coach services have been shoved across to Stratford City - not exactly mega friendly if you have to trek across the bridge in the pouring rain or a howling gale or at night. Also the lifts and escalators at the Stratford side of the bridge are often defective so having to carry luggage up several flights of stairs is pretty poor.
|
|
|
Post by busoccultation on Sept 13, 2018 20:25:27 GMT
If you want a bus towards Plaistow you will end up trekking to the bus station or having to cross the entire Broadway to Tramway Avenue. To be honest only two of four routes (262 & 473) go to Plaistow that stop directly outside Stratford Centre so you're effectually having to make a choice to cross the road get the 69 or 241 or wait outside the Stratford Centre and get the 262 or 473. Although while you do have to cross the road to Tramway Avenue once the bus stops changes, there will be all four Plaistow routes will stop at Stop L so people can jump on whatever of the 69, 241, 262 or 473 comes first.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 14, 2018 1:16:36 GMT
I know this is not anything new but I think much of these gyratory changes really are pretty awful if you're a bus passenger. The choice of stops is reduced. Interchange, unless at the bus station, is worsened. Shopkeepers and businesses on the Broadway may end up with rather less footfall than they currently get. If you want a bus towards Plaistow you will end up trekking to the bus station or having to cross the entire Broadway to Tramway Avenue. One advantage of the old layout was that there were stops on the shopping centre side of the Broadway for these services but that's gone now and people will be forced to cross a 4 lane highway. I also note that we have bus stops directly opposite each other at Tramway Avenue - can't wait to see how that works. I think the current situation is that there is only one for services heading towards the bus station / Stratford City. An awful lot of buses per hour are going to be using new bus stop L. I also note that coach services have been shoved across to Stratford City - not exactly mega friendly if you have to trek across the bridge in the pouring rain or a howling gale or at night. Also the lifts and escalators at the Stratford side of the bridge are often defective so having to carry luggage up several flights of stairs is pretty poor. The irony is that these wonderful pedestrianisation schemes makes shops less accessible for buses and cars, which are necessary for people who plan on doing significant amounts of shopping. This surely makes online shopping or retail park shopping more attractive than traditional town centres. For me personally, the shifting of the coach stop to Stratford City is terrible. Thanks for bringing that to my attention that happened in the summer and I had no idea. I have used the jubilee line or DLR to transfer to the A9 coach to/from Stansted for family trips quite a few times in the past due to the close proximity of the old stop to Stratford bus station. Less than 5 minutes step free walk from the platform to the coach stop. Now it seems like all my future trips to Stansted will be by car.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Sept 14, 2018 1:23:18 GMT
I know this is not anything new but I think much of these gyratory changes really are pretty awful if you're a bus passenger. The choice of stops is reduced. Interchange, unless at the bus station, is worsened. Shopkeepers and businesses on the Broadway may end up with rather less footfall than they currently get. If you want a bus towards Plaistow you will end up trekking to the bus station or having to cross the entire Broadway to Tramway Avenue. One advantage of the old layout was that there were stops on the shopping centre side of the Broadway for these services but that's gone now and people will be forced to cross a 4 lane highway. I also note that we have bus stops directly opposite each other at Tramway Avenue - can't wait to see how that works. I think the current situation is that there is only one for services heading towards the bus station / Stratford City. An awful lot of buses per hour are going to be using new bus stop L. I also note that coach services have been shoved across to Stratford City - not exactly mega friendly if you have to trek across the bridge in the pouring rain or a howling gale or at night. Also the lifts and escalators at the Stratford side of the bridge are often defective so having to carry luggage up several flights of stairs is pretty poor. The irony is that these wonderful pedestrianisation schemes makes shops less accessible for buses and cars, which are necessary for people who plan on doing significant amounts of shopping. This surely makes online shopping or retail park shopping more attractive than traditional town centres. For me personally, the shifting of the coach stop to Stratford City is terrible. Thanks for bringing that to my attention that happened in the summer and I had no idea. I have used the jubilee line or DLR to transfer to the A9 coach to/from Stansted for family trips quite a few times in the past due to the close proximity of the old stop to Stratford bus station. Less than 5 minutes step free walk from the platform to the coach stop. Now it seems like all my future trips to Stansted will be by car. Entirely agree, pedestrian schemes make it less desirable to shop there which is ironic given their whole premise is to actually make it more attractive especially when vehicles, more importantly buses, are shoved out of the way in the process such as in Croydon & Ilford where they are forced to run around towns just to serve the important spots. It's the same with these so called junction improvements where they pour blame onto a gyratory system so it can then be removed with bus stops relocated into less ideal locations breaking interchanges up - I'll find it funny when Aldwych snarls up once ruined - why part of it is being pedestrianised is beyond me given there isn't anything there besides the theaters which are off the main road anyway.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Sept 14, 2018 2:32:37 GMT
The irony is that these wonderful pedestrianisation schemes makes shops less accessible for buses and cars, which are necessary for people who plan on doing significant amounts of shopping. This surely makes online shopping or retail park shopping more attractive than traditional town centres. For me personally, the shifting of the coach stop to Stratford City is terrible. Thanks for bringing that to my attention that happened in the summer and I had no idea. I have used the jubilee line or DLR to transfer to the A9 coach to/from Stansted for family trips quite a few times in the past due to the close proximity of the old stop to Stratford bus station. Less than 5 minutes step free walk from the platform to the coach stop. Now it seems like all my future trips to Stansted will be by car. Entirely agree, pedestrian schemes make it less desirable to shop there which is ironic given their whole premise is to actually make it more attractive especially when vehicles, more importantly buses, are shoved out of the way in the process such as in Croydon & Ilford where they are forced to run around towns just to serve the important spots. It's the same with these so called junction improvements where they pour blame onto a gyratory system so it can then be removed with bus stops relocated into less ideal locations breaking interchanges up - I'll find it funny when Aldwych snarls up once ruined - why part of it is being pedestrianised is beyond me given there isn't anything there besides the theaters which are off the main road anyway. Exactly. TfL have taken the approach that all gyratories are bad full stop and are on a crusade to remove them from existence, increasing traffic junctions with little improvement in traffic flow. In reality it seems that sometimes it’s a good idea to make changes and sometimes it isn’t. Poorer accessibility to transport is never a good thing where shopping is concerned. Woolwich is a classic example of a town centre that has been made less accessible. The town centre used to be busier when buses could get right into the shopping area. Now buses skirt around it, making it more troublesome for less able passengers (elderly, disabled, travelling with young children) to lug home their shopping. Not to mention that passengers passing through have no idea what shops lie behind the main square with its lovely grass and giant TV. Car parking is not convenient either. Does the public realm look nicer? Yes. Footfall increase? Quite the opposite. Retail parks in the area are absolutely heaving on the other hand, local shoppers can’t get enough of them. London town planners seem to have lost sight of the fact that people primarily go to town centres to shop, not for leisurely walks to marvel at the snazzy new pavement or marvellous water feature. Aldwych...ok you’ve really triggered me by bringing that up!! Aldwych will be carnage once TfL make those changes. At present southbound traffic flows very nicely from Kingsway onto Aldwych. Not so once the gyratory inflicts a junction with two way traffic from Aldwych. The tailbacks on Kingsway will probably more than offset any advantages gained by the shorter distance to Waterloo Bridge and the Strand. Most northbound traffic into Kingsway from Waterloo can use the underpass and buses can turn right from the Strand onto Waterloo Bridge. Traffic flows well in Aldwych compared to other hubs in zone 1. You have to wonder what problem TfL are trying to solve with the proposed changes. Perhaps when travelling northbound from Arundel Street the removal of the gyratory will eliminate the need to merge with and cross southbound traffic on the Strand, but that’s a small gain for the pain it will cause. A complete waste of taxpayers money.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 14, 2018 7:03:28 GMT
Entirely agree, pedestrian schemes make it less desirable to shop there which is ironic given their whole premise is to actually make it more attractive especially when vehicles, more importantly buses, are shoved out of the way in the process such as in Croydon & Ilford where they are forced to run around towns just to serve the important spots. It's the same with these so called junction improvements where they pour blame onto a gyratory system so it can then be removed with bus stops relocated into less ideal locations breaking interchanges up - I'll find it funny when Aldwych snarls up once ruined - why part of it is being pedestrianised is beyond me given there isn't anything there besides the theaters which are off the main road anyway. Exactly. TfL have taken the approach that all gyratories are bad full stop and are on a crusade to remove them from existence, increasing traffic junctions with little improvement in traffic flow. In reality it seems that sometimes it’s a good idea to make changes and sometimes it isn’t. Poorer accessibility to transport is never a good thing where shopping is concerned. Woolwich is a classic example of a town centre that has been made less accessible. The town centre used to be busier when buses could get right into the shopping area. Now buses skirt around it, making it more troublesome for less able passengers (elderly, disabled, travelling with young children) to lug home their shopping. Not to mention that passengers passing through have no idea what shops lie behind the main square with its lovely grass and giant TV. Car parking is not convenient either. Does the public realm look nicer? Yes. Footfall increase? Quite the opposite. Retail parks in the area are absolutely heaving on the other hand, local shoppers can’t get enough of them. London town planners seem to have lost sight of the fact that people primarily go to town centres to shop, not for leisurely walks to marvel at the snazzy new pavement or marvellous water feature. Aldwych...ok you’ve really triggered me by bringing that up!! Aldwych will be carnage once TfL make those changes. At present southbound traffic flows very nicely from Kingsway onto Aldwych. Not so once the gyratory inflicts a junction with two way traffic from Aldwych. The tailbacks on Kingsway will probably more than offset any advantages gained by the shorter distance to Waterloo Bridge and the Strand. Most northbound traffic into Kingsway from Waterloo can use the underpass and buses can turn right from the Strand onto Waterloo Bridge. Traffic flows well in Aldwych compared to other hubs in zone 1. You have to wonder what problem TfL are trying to solve with the proposed changes. Perhaps when travelling northbound from Arundel Street the removal of the gyratory will eliminate the need to merge with and cross southbound traffic on the Strand, but that’s a small gain for the pain it will cause. A complete waste of taxpayers money. Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money.
|
|
|
Post by deppy42 on Sept 14, 2018 7:14:32 GMT
Exactly. TfL have taken the approach that all gyratories are bad full stop and are on a crusade to remove them from existence, increasing traffic junctions with little improvement in traffic flow. In reality it seems that sometimes it’s a good idea to make changes and sometimes it isn’t. Poorer accessibility to transport is never a good thing where shopping is concerned. Woolwich is a classic example of a town centre that has been made less accessible. The town centre used to be busier when buses could get right into the shopping area. Now buses skirt around it, making it more troublesome for less able passengers (elderly, disabled, travelling with young children) to lug home their shopping. Not to mention that passengers passing through have no idea what shops lie behind the main square with its lovely grass and giant TV. Car parking is not convenient either. Does the public realm look nicer? Yes. Footfall increase? Quite the opposite. Retail parks in the area are absolutely heaving on the other hand, local shoppers can’t get enough of them. London town planners seem to have lost sight of the fact that people primarily go to town centres to shop, not for leisurely walks to marvel at the snazzy new pavement or marvellous water feature. Aldwych...ok you’ve really triggered me by bringing that up!! Aldwych will be carnage once TfL make those changes. At present southbound traffic flows very nicely from Kingsway onto Aldwych. Not so once the gyratory inflicts a junction with two way traffic from Aldwych. The tailbacks on Kingsway will probably more than offset any advantages gained by the shorter distance to Waterloo Bridge and the Strand. Most northbound traffic into Kingsway from Waterloo can use the underpass and buses can turn right from the Strand onto Waterloo Bridge. Traffic flows well in Aldwych compared to other hubs in zone 1. You have to wonder what problem TfL are trying to solve with the proposed changes. Perhaps when travelling northbound from Arundel Street the removal of the gyratory will eliminate the need to merge with and cross southbound traffic on the Strand, but that’s a small gain for the pain it will cause. A complete waste of taxpayers money. Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Not quite a gyratory, but one that has gone the opposite way. Hayes (Middx) was pedestrianised, but has now had the High Street re-instated to normal traffic. Is so much better!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 7:16:59 GMT
Since West Ham lane bus section closed do the diverted the buses off the 104,238,262 etc serve the stop across the road from Stratford centre? Also are they diverted from the bus station bus via the 25 and 86 route or around the one way system.
I know this all changes on Monday!
|
|
|
Post by sid on Sept 14, 2018 7:20:04 GMT
Gyratory systems are being removed all over the country and not just in London, they were generally introduced to speed up traffic flows in an era where the car was king and everybody else was treated like a second class citizen. Woolwich......bus routings aren't ideal especially the change to the 161 but Powis Street is a far more pleasant environment for shoppers without the traffic. The decline in shoppers is really no different to other towns all over the country, largely due to the onset of online shopping. Out of town shopping centres, where people can generally shop in a far more pleasant environment, is one of the main reasons for pedestrianising town centres. Who wants to shop in a traffic ridden fume filled environment? Aldwych........I haven't looked at the proposal in great detail but it's not a particularly pleasant environment at the moment. Yes there will be more traffic congestion in the short term but the long term objective is to encourage more people to walk or cycle and I certainly don't see how this work is a waste of taxpayers money. Not quite a gyratory, but one that has gone the opposite way. Hayes (Middx) was pedestrianised, but has now had the High Street re-instated to normal traffic. Is so much better! It wasn't pedestrianised it was just blocked off to through traffic.
|
|
|
Post by Alexis on Sept 14, 2018 8:04:54 GMT
I notice that bus stop C looks to be abandoned on that during the day with only the N8 using it at night. The 241 meanwhile doesn't seem to have any stop in the bus station heading towards Westfield according to that leaflet while a 241 sticker has appeared at bus stop C in the bus station. Also looks like the 158 will serve new stop P from the 17th while the 257 and 241 don't join in until the 22nd October. Wonder what that's all about I'm glad TfL publicity is doing well. According to the actual stop tiles at the bus station, stop C will be served the 241 308 508 and N8 with stop A being left with the 69 158 and 257
|
|