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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 12:31:14 GMT
Interesting that both the 223 and 427 changes had pretty much even god & bad responses.
223 +16%/-14% 427 +24%/-25%
Yet the changes will still go ahead. There must be a lot of non-committal responses to have such low percentages when out of 1K+ responses.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 17, 2018 13:17:07 GMT
Interesting that both the 223 and 427 changes had pretty much even god & bad responses. 223 +16%/-14% 427 +24%/-25% Yet the changes will still go ahead. There must be a lot of non-committal responses to have such low percentages when out of 1K+ responses. There are very large percentages of "no comment" and "neither oppose or support" on many of the questions. While I understand why people may be non committal about proposals I don't think it helps the overall process. However I don't know how you'd change matters to force a "better" result.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 17, 2018 13:17:27 GMT
Another mixed bag here I feel - whilst splitting the 266 is right IMO, the replacement routes they suggested seem like they’re literally just thrown in to plug gaps without proper thought involved. I’m still of the opinion that the 223 & 427 changes are horrible but at least the E1 isn’t being cut in frequency & the 112 won’t have to worry about extra reliability issues.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 13:23:34 GMT
Genuine question. Has consultation always taken place ? Can’t remember any taking place before schemes like Harrow , Bexleyheath, Sutton, and Kingston were implemented in the late 80’s.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 17, 2018 13:35:02 GMT
Another mixed bag here I feel - whilst splitting the 266 is right IMO, the replacement routes they suggested seem like they’re literally just thrown in to plug gaps without proper thought involved. I’m still of the opinion that the 223 & 427 changes are horrible but at least the E1 isn’t being cut in frequency & the 112 won’t have to worry about extra reliability issues. I understand the problems with the 266 having suffered directly at its unreliable hands. The problem is that the "solution" is a right old mess. In more rational times the 306 would run to the 70's old stand in Acton thus retaining capacity on the Acton to Hammersmith link and providing a full interchange capability. I do wonder if TfL may end up with the 440 becoming a Wembley - Acton - Chiswick - Richmond service taking over the western end of the 391 with the Chiswick High Rd section of the 391 going altogether. That would provide a new convenient West London link. Obviously poses a bit of an issue for local trips from west of Gunnersbury to Chiswick. I do wonder how many former bus trips have transferred to the air conditioned Tube and Overground services.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 13:38:27 GMT
Another mixed bag here I feel - whilst splitting the 266 is right IMO, the replacement routes they suggested seem like they’re literally just thrown in to plug gaps without proper thought involved. I’m still of the opinion that the 223 & 427 changes are horrible but at least the E1 isn’t being cut in frequency & the 112 won’t have to worry about extra reliability issues. Agree regards 223 & 427. I'm not overly chuffed about the 266 either, especially as it currently performing above target! The 140 I feel still needs to go to the Airport. Reduce the frequency and run a X140 will be what's needed. But I've been after an X140 got years so I'm not overly fussed here.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 17, 2018 13:48:01 GMT
Genuine question. Has consultation always taken place ? Can’t remember any taking place before schemes like Harrow , Bexleyheath, Sutton, and Kingston were implemented in the late 80’s. No it hasn't. I believe the requirement for local authorities (TfL counts as one) to consult on changes was a legislative change back in the late 90s / 2000s. TfL's obligation sits in the Greater London Act. There was certainly no public consultation in the 80s or 90s that I can recall. I expect LT (LRT) and TfL have always talked to the Borough Councils because they are statutory highway authorities for the roads that buses run on and to try to maintain reasonable relationships with local politicians. Prior to 86 there was, of course, GLC control of LT so political influence as made that way. It disappeared when the government took over LRT. The Thatcher government didn't believe in consultation and Major was more concerned with flogging off the bus companies. Only Stephen Norris seemed to have exercised a modicum of common sense influence in that deregulation was taken off the agenda during his tenure as a minister at DfT. Today's environment is different from that in the past.
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Post by BusesInLondon on Aug 17, 2018 15:06:04 GMT
I don't personally see how an X140 will speed up journey times. Try creating bus priority traffic lights and the need for an express 140 will vanish. Reducing the frequency wont help either. I was on the "N140" the other day and the bus was so full, the driver had to leave passengers behind.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 17, 2018 16:02:22 GMT
I don't personally see how an X140 will speed up journey times. Try creating bus priority traffic lights and the need for an express 140 will vanish. Reducing the frequency wont help either. I was on the "N140" the other day and the bus was so full, the driver had to leave passengers behind. I like the X140 idea but I feel they’re missing a trick by not running it via The Parkway and removing the restriction on Pump House Lane allowing X140’s into Hayes to serve the town centre before returning to The Parkway to continue its journey.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 16:36:14 GMT
I’m curious about TfL not implementing the 112 plan. 40% support and 5% against on a total of over 1k responses (clearly some expressed lack of opinion or voided)
Shows that they don’t listen to joe public but I wonder what exactly it was about the stakeholders that had them backtracking, especially since they stubbornly claim the 112 does and would continue to have worked reliably had the changes been implemented. I must say I’m surprised they didn’t push that one through actually, even if others aren’t.
All leads to the question about what route would replace it, perhaps the E1 since they cancelled the frequency reduction?
I’m disappointed that they don’t plan to increase the 95 to DD.
Most of all I’m disappointed about the mess they’ll make of the Acton routes, especially this hash of a 306 idea. Bye bye 391 down the line
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Post by Ted Barclay on Aug 17, 2018 16:46:34 GMT
Genuine question. Has consultation always taken place ? Can’t remember any taking place before schemes like Harrow , Bexleyheath, Sutton, and Kingston were implemented in the late 80’s. Consultation was undertaken, but only with MPs, councils, health authorities and similar bodies. Passenger groups (such as the forerunner of today's Travelwatch) were also consulted. LT's line was always that it was job the of those bodies to pass it on to the general public. Things changed dramatically from 2000 when the GLA insisted on wider consultation, although now there seems to be some backsliding by TfL. Ted B
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Post by COBO on Aug 17, 2018 17:30:10 GMT
I’m curious about TfL not implementing the 112 plan. 40% support and 5% against on a total of over 1k responses (clearly some expressed lack of opinion or voided) Shows that they don’t listen to joe public but I wonder what exactly it was about the stakeholders that had them backtracking, especially since they stubbornly claim the 112 does and would continue to have worked reliably had the changes been implemented. I must say I’m surprised they didn’t push that one through actually, even if others aren’t. All leads to the question about what route would replace it, perhaps the E1 since they cancelled the frequency reduction? I’m disappointed that they don’t plan to increase the 95 to DD. Most of all I’m disappointed about the mess they’ll make of the Acton routes, especially this hash of a 306 idea. Bye bye 391 down the line I’m wondering why the 95 wasn’t double decked either.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 17, 2018 17:44:57 GMT
I see the 306 as the most pointless hash. The 391 has already dropped to every 15 mins and is coping. If cacapcity becomes and issue then a DD conversion can happen. The 218 can replace the 266 on its own if it uses DDs. There's no issue with cacapcity of the 266 section but mroe the length that makes it unreliable.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 18:53:01 GMT
I see the 306 as the most pointless hash. The 391 has already dropped to every 15 mins and is coping. If cacapcity becomes and issue then a DD conversion can happen. The 218 can replace the 266 on its own if it uses DDs. There's no issue with cacapcity of the 266 section but mroe the length that makes it unreliable. Exactly re the 306/391. It’s a big indication to eventually cut the 391. TfL don’t want bus duplication over tube/rail lines and the 306 routeing ticks their boxes. I’m not sure I understand what you mean about the 218 replacing the 266 as it will take the 440 route between Acton and North Acton but yes it is a rather pointless ‘token’ route.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2018 18:54:42 GMT
I’m curious about TfL not implementing the 112 plan. 40% support and 5% against on a total of over 1k responses (clearly some expressed lack of opinion or voided) Shows that they don’t listen to joe public but I wonder what exactly it was about the stakeholders that had them backtracking, especially since they stubbornly claim the 112 does and would continue to have worked reliably had the changes been implemented. I must say I’m surprised they didn’t push that one through actually, even if others aren’t. All leads to the question about what route would replace it, perhaps the E1 since they cancelled the frequency reduction? I’m disappointed that they don’t plan to increase the 95 to DD. Most of all I’m disappointed about the mess they’ll make of the Acton routes, especially this hash of a 306 idea. Bye bye 391 down the line I’m wondering why the 95 wasn’t double decked either. As we know they claim the demand is sufficient for single decks only but with the business and residential regeneration along the route they may as well address it now rather than wait for a situation where people need to complain they are being left behind
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