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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 18:01:14 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand.
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 21, 2018 18:22:24 GMT
All bets are off as TfL said on LBC that all road improvement schemes are not going ahead due to lack of money. Not sure if that includes Oxford St or just the outrageous cycle routes to nowhere It reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons when Homer took over running Springfield's waste management, put all the dustmen in posh suits with brand new trucks and blew the entire budget in two weeks
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Post by snoggle on Feb 21, 2018 18:48:45 GMT
All bets are off as TfL said on LBC that all road improvement schemes are not going ahead due to lack of money. Not sure if that includes Oxford St or just the outrageous cycle routes to nowhere It reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons when Homer took over running Springfield's waste management, put all the dustmen in posh suits with brand new trucks and blew the entire budget in two weeks I think you are reading too much into this. Most of the TfL schemes are postponed until 2020 already - Waterloo, Vauxhall, Old Street. Cyling budget has not been cut. It is maintenance on the TfL Road Network that has been slashed to the bare minimum so that's the A4, A12, A205, A406 and other key arterial roads in Gtr London. Oxford Street pedestrianisation is not a TfL scheme despite the Mayoral commitment to it. It is a Westminster City Council highway so it is their responsibility although TfL have to facilitate it by altering the bus network. WCC have a ginormous transport surplus because of the huge car parking revenues they have which *have* to be spent on transport schemes in the Borough.
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Post by londonbuses2018 on Feb 21, 2018 20:42:41 GMT
113 cut back to Selfridges is a joke why reroute it in the bloody first place I think it should be Extended to Trafalgar Sqaure Via Route 139.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Feb 21, 2018 20:49:34 GMT
113 cut back to Selfridges is a joke why reroute it in the bloody first place I think it should be Extended to Trafalgar Sqaure Via Route 139. I wouldn't extend it to Trafalgar Square as a route like that will collapse in terms of reliability then TfL will probably use the opportunity to just cut it even further. The reason it was rerouted in the first place was to keep the link from Finchley Road to Oxford Circus which would have otherwise been lost, however with pedestrianisation that link won't be needed in terms of the buses.
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Post by ADH45258 on Feb 21, 2018 21:19:44 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand.
Most of this makes perfect sense. I agree with the 10 - diverting the 10 via Baker Street would allow the 30 to be cut back, maybe to Warren Street. I would also suggest diverting the 14 from Tottenham Court Road to King's Cross via Great Russell Street, Russell Square and Euston, in order to replace the withdrawn section of the 10, with route 30 using the former 14 stand at Warren Street. If stand space at Kings Cross is an issue, the 10 could be cut back to Euston as the 205 and 390 will duplicate most links. The 23 via Marylebone and Great Portland Street is a good idea, though I think the 23 would be a better candidate than the 139 to go via Wigmore Street. The 139 would then be diverted from Lisson Grove via Marylebone Station then the 453 to Oxford Circus. The 98/414 idea is good, with route 6 covering links along the existing 414 route to Maida Hill. The 94 to Camden Town could work, though I think the route could be used east of Marble Arch to provide an alternative route to Wigmore Street that parallels the pedestrianised Oxford Street. It would operate via Brook Street/Grosvenor Street then existing line of route from Regent Street to Piccadilly Circus. The 94 could then be extended from Piccadilly Circus to Holborn via Shaftesbury Avenue. This would replace the link provided by the current 98 between Marble Arch and Holborn (connecting along the length of Oxford Street). I'm not sure if the 88/453 idea would work, as it would significantly lengthen both routes. The 453 could be cut back to Oxford Circus or Piccadilly Circus if replaced by the 23 to Marylebone. I would suggest converting the C2 to SD operation (if the route is less busy since withdrawal from Victoria), with an extension to Highgate Village. This would allow the 214 to be cut back to Parliament Hill Fields and converted to double deck (the 214 is probably busier than the C2). The two routes could swap contracts, as with the 350 and U5. With the 46, diverting to Maida Hill would remove links to/from Paddington towards St John's Wood, Swiss Cottage and Hampstead, though the 187 would continue most links as far as Warwick Avenue.
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Post by sid on Feb 21, 2018 21:34:44 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand.
I like those ideas, I thought the same about the 10 to Kings Cross via Marylebone Road and cutting the 30 back to Warren Street. Ideally I think the 453 should still go to Marylebone during peak hours. I like the 98 idea although probably doesn't need to go all the way to Putney, maybe the Chelsea Worlds End stand, and I agree that the Maida Hill section of the 414 wouldn't need replacing.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 21, 2018 23:10:27 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand.
The 88 wouldn’t be able to terminate at Parliament Hill Fields as long buses can’t negotiate the roundabout.
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Post by COBO on Feb 21, 2018 23:44:52 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand.
The 88 wouldn’t be able to terminate at Parliament Hill Fields as long buses can’t negotiate the roundabout. Couldn’t the roundabout be altered to allow long buses.
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Post by rmz19 on Feb 22, 2018 0:43:28 GMT
If we take as gospel that only the 139 and 390 will run via Wigmore Street, then there are more imaginative possibilities than curtailing everything else at Marble Arch. How about: Instead of joining the remainders of the 10 and the 23 (Hammersmith - Marble Arch - Wesbourne Park), the 10 continues to run Hammersmith - King's Cross but diverted between Marble Arch & Euston via 30, and the 23 continues to run Westbourne Park & Aldwych but diverted at Edgware Road via 27 to Marylebone Road and then via 453. These two additional services via Marylebone Road would allow the 453 to be withdrawn west of Great Portland Street, from where it could go to Camden Town via Albany Street, replacing the C2. The section of C2 between Camden & PHF would go to the 88 and so the C2 is abolished. The 98 diverted at Marble Arch to Putney Bridge replacing the 414. The northern section of the 414 to Maida Hill does not need replacing in my view. The 94 extended from Marble Arch to Camden Town via 274. This allows the 274 to divert at Lord's to replace the 46 to Lancaster Gate, removing it from the Marble Arch area. The lengthy 46 is shortened and returns to Maida Hill to the 414 stand. In general your ideas seem logical, though IMO there are some flaws. The 98 should remain terminating at Holborn as it is very popular to and from there. I would send the 98 down Wigmore Street alongside the 139 and 390 so it continues to serve Holborn and TCR. Instead of rerouting the 94, the 414 could be rerouted to Camden Town instead, from Edgware Road via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. I also agree that the 414 does not need replacing north of Edgware Road as the 6 is already adequate. As for the 94, it could be rerouted to Victoria to assist the 148 between Victoria and Shepherd's Bush. I wouldn't reroute the 46 to Maida Hill as the 187 is adequate between Swiss Cottage and Maida Hill, the latter being an area already overbussed by the 228 and 414 IMO. The 46 could just be curtailed to Paddington and at the other end to King's Cross or Chancery Lane. The 45 could consequently be given a slight frequency boost to compensate if the 46 is curtailed to King's Cross. Regarding the C2, I agree that the 88 could be extended to PHF to replace the C2 entirely, with the inclusion of modifying the roundabout at PHF to accommodate LTs. Your idea of extending the 453 to Camden Town is sensible, though this might affect its reliability a little as it's already quite lengthy, though this shouldn't be much of an issue. However, as you mentioned, this would sensibly allow the 23 to replace the 453 between Marylebone and Trafalgar Square via Marylebone Road, thus leaving the 10 and 23 as they are and scrapping TFL's ridiculous 10/23 idea completely. I agree with rerouting the 10 via the 30 to King's Cross, the 30 could consequently be curtailed to Baker Street. There would also be scope for extending the 23 from Aldwych to Blackfriars Station via Temple Station, providing Blackfriars Station with a useful connection to and from The West End. Furthermore, the 88 could use the more direct Albany Road as it would be a relatively longer route due to its extension to PHF, while the 453 could replace the 88 to Camden Town via Hampstead Road.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 22, 2018 2:02:43 GMT
The 88 wouldn’t be able to terminate at Parliament Hill Fields as long buses can’t negotiate the roundabout. Couldn’t the roundabout be altered to allow long buses. I don’t know but I don’t think it would be a great use of resources in a time when money is tight. If you really need to replace the C2 and I’ve my doubts about it actually needing to be replaced, then extend something that uses shorter double deckers.
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Post by COBO on Feb 22, 2018 4:10:07 GMT
Couldn’t the roundabout be altered to allow long buses. I don’t know but I don’t think it would be a great use of resources in a time when money is tight. If you really need to replace the C2 and I’ve my doubts about it actually needing to be replaced, then extend something that uses shorter double deckers. Extend the 31 to Parliament Square. And couldn't the LTs be removed from the 88 and converted to standardise DDs and onto another route.
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Post by sid on Feb 22, 2018 6:07:07 GMT
I don’t know but I don’t think it would be a great use of resources in a time when money is tight. If you really need to replace the C2 and I’ve my doubts about it actually needing to be replaced, then extend something that uses shorter double deckers. Extend the 31 to Parliament Square. And couldn't the LTs be removed from the 88 and converted to standardise DDs and onto another route. Could just swap buses with the 87?
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Post by snowman on Feb 22, 2018 6:54:27 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Feb 22, 2018 9:08:38 GMT
As I have already said Oxford St pedestrianisation is a Westminster City Council scheme. WCC have a massive transport budget surplus from their parking schemes. Other than hacking the bus network to bits I doubt TfL are spending any money on Oxford St just as they won't be spending money on making Tott Court Rd two way which is a Camden Council scheme. All the major gyratory schemes proposed by TfL are already pushed back to at least 2020 if not later. I doubt Oxford St, as a flagship Mayoral policy, would be delayed.
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