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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 20:44:52 GMT
Marble Arch, in my opinion, is already overflowing with terminated buses, and the 23s first stop would be miles away. In fact most routes that terminate at Marble Arch actually pick up/set down miles away. It is not designed to be a bus terminus and should never have been used that way! But what so positive about the 10 / 23? Why not leave both routes the two routes alone. I don't think anyone actually AGREES with the merger, but the merger is the lesser of two evils. Better to merge the two than having two additional routes squeezing into Marble Arch ...
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Post by busaholic on Sept 6, 2018 20:45:01 GMT
You think the 10/23 merger has merit? I must get a new dictionary. It's better than terminating both routes at Marble Arch. In the same way that a kick in the groin is better than two kicks in the groin?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 6, 2018 21:08:56 GMT
But what so positive about the 10 / 23? Why not leave both routes the two routes alone. I don't think anyone actually AGREES with the merger, but the merger is the lesser of two evils. Better to merge the two than having two additional routes squeezing into Marble Arch ... TfL could, of course, have swallowed hard and conceded the survival of one extra route on Oxford St by doing the following. Merge the 23 and 94 to give an Aldwych to Acton Green service Merge the 10 and 30 to give a Hammersmith to Hackney Wick service. Rejig the 414 to provide the local service via Paddington and Notting Hill that the 23 provides. The 6 can easily cope with the section up the Edgware Rd to Maida Hill. That actually takes a bit of pressure *off* Marble Arch.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 6, 2018 21:17:22 GMT
Hopefully the 25 will stay till the opening. I think it may be a bit late for the 10/23 with the 27 gaining the LTs releasing it's ADHs for the E3 in conjunction with the Chiswick green zone.
The 94, 113 and 159 all had no dates given anyways thou the 113 and 159 were not massively involved with Crossrail anyways.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 6, 2018 21:32:43 GMT
Hopefully the 25 will stay till the opening. I think it may be a bit late for the 10/23 with the 27 gaining the LTs releasing it's ADHs for the E3 in conjunction with the Chiswick green zone. The 94, 113 and 159 all had no dates given anyways thou the 113 and 159 were not massively involved with Crossrail anyways. Whose to say the ADH’s going to the E3 are to do with the green corridor? Green corridors only require buses to meet Euro VI be it a diesel or hybrid - I suspect other factors are the reason why SP’s are coming off as we know at least the Euro V SP’s in the fleet will be staying and upgraded.
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Post by COBO on Sept 6, 2018 21:33:31 GMT
I don't think anyone actually AGREES with the merger, but the merger is the lesser of two evils. Better to merge the two than having two additional routes squeezing into Marble Arch ... TfL could, of course, have swallowed hard and conceded the survival of one extra route on Oxford St by doing the following. Merge the 23 and 94 to give an Aldwych to Acton Green service Merge the 10 and 30 to give a Hammersmith to Hackney Wick service. Rejig the 414 to provide the local service via Paddington and Notting Hill that the 23 provides. The 6 can easily cope with the section up the Edgware Rd to Maida Hill. That actually takes a bit of pressure *off* Marble Arch. Or merge the 16 with 10 or 23.
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Post by redbus on Sept 7, 2018 13:52:43 GMT
You think the 10/23 merger has merit? I must get a new dictionary. It will have a merit, a merit to breaking established links with two useful routes It is not merit for passengers, there seems to be precious little of that for bus passengers these days, instead the merit is for TfL by saving them money - and that is why I think the 10/23 merger above all the other changes will still proceed in November. That's not to say some of the other changes won't still happen, just that the 10/23 merger is at the top of the list for changes to proceed.
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Post by redbus on Sept 7, 2018 13:56:05 GMT
I don't think anyone actually AGREES with the merger, but the merger is the lesser of two evils. Better to merge the two than having two additional routes squeezing into Marble Arch ... TfL could, of course, have swallowed hard and conceded the survival of one extra route on Oxford St by doing the following. Merge the 23 and 94 to give an Aldwych to Acton Green service Merge the 10 and 30 to give a Hammersmith to Hackney Wick service. Rejig the 414 to provide the local service via Paddington and Notting Hill that the 23 provides. The 6 can easily cope with the section up the Edgware Rd to Maida Hill. That actually takes a bit of pressure *off* Marble Arch. Good idea, but won't happen because TfL don't want another Oxford Street - Regent Street - Stand route, and more importantly want the savings from not providing this link.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 7, 2018 14:10:33 GMT
The 25 would be hard to cut before Crossrail but the vehicles are now earmarked for the 452 so could cause problems.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 15:30:53 GMT
I didn't mean that the changes were in doubt, just delayed, to tie in with the delayed opening. As the 10/23 was part of the Oxford Street plan, I just wonder if that will also be delayed like the others. Bearing in mind the current plan to use the 10s LTs on the truncated 27. And whether that will have to be delayed along with a further extension to the Route 9 contract. With all those possible complications maybe the 10 will still go ahead whilst others wait. The 23 change should be postponed, I suppose it depends if RATP can continue operating the 10 and the LT conversion of the 27 postponed? It shouldn’t matter a jot to either TT or RATP. RATP have just had to help TfL come up with a plan for the displaced LT’s . If i was RATP I’d be very pleased as it means they keep a route earning contract revenue, but equally frustrated at an increasingly shambolic Client always changing their minds.
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Post by VWH1414 on Sept 7, 2018 17:27:14 GMT
Marble Arch, in my opinion, is already overflowing with terminated buses, and the 23s first stop would be miles away. In fact most routes that terminate at Marble Arch actually pick up/set down miles away. It is not designed to be a bus terminus and should never have been used that way! Why not leave both routes the two routes alone? Same could've been said about the 303/305, but this is tfl and their cost cutting which in some cases is changing routes unnecessarily to effectively get rid of a route (In this case they technically get rid of the 10, with the 303/305 they got rid of the 305) Honestly some of these cuts aren't helping the situation, they are just turning more people away from using the buses.
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Post by COBO on Sept 7, 2018 19:49:21 GMT
Why not leave both routes the two routes alone? Same could've been said about the 303/305, but this is tfl and their cost cutting which in some cases is changing routes unnecessarily to effectively get rid of a route (In this case they technically get rid of the 10, with the 303/305 they got rid of the 305) Honestly some of these cuts aren't helping the situation, they are just turning more people away from using the buses. Exactly.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 7, 2018 20:57:48 GMT
It will have a merit, a merit to breaking established links with two useful routes It is not merit for passengers, there seems to be precious little of that for bus passengers these days, instead the merit is for TfL by saving them money - and that is why I think the 10/23 merger above all the other changes will still proceed in November. That's not to say some of the other changes won't still happen, just that the 10/23 merger is at the top of the list for changes to proceed. The reply from 15002 sounded like a good spot of sarcasm there lol.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Oct 18, 2018 22:57:11 GMT
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Post by southlondonbus on Oct 19, 2018 6:48:22 GMT
It says it would like max of 4 routes so that is basically the go ahead to the 94, 113 and 159 being pulled out now and the 10 withdraw and 25 leaves just 4 between Oxo and Tottenham Court Road aswell.
I'd expect to see some thinning at the other end with the 2,13,74,113,189 and 274 being classed as providing far too much cacapcity and atleast 1 or 2 routes being cut to Marble Arch.
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