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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 14:02:30 GMT
Have to agree with above comments. The assumption that cross rail / tube is quicker for short hop journeys may not always be accurate, once you take into account the descent and assent, queuing and waiting time. I'm glad people are beginning to twig this. I've only been saying it for months. TfL have decided we MUST all use Crossrail and pay higher fares. Nice for them but not necessarily nice for some of the poor passengers. Just as they decided people must use tramlink between Croydon and New Addington, although there isn't a premium fare but changing at Addington Village mid winter can be an unpleasant experience.
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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 14:06:42 GMT
I'm not sure Marble Arch is freezing for most of the year but I understand what you're saying. But surely Crossrail will be the easiest way from Oxford Circus to Paddington? Yes I know it'll cost more than the bus but it'll be a lot quicker. Not once you factor in the fact it's so many feet underground! The other thing is you're fighting with everyone else on their way to Paddington. I think Crossrail will still be much quicker for journeys like Oxford Circus to Paddington with trains every minute or two and surely there will be far fewer people travelling specifically to Paddington?
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Post by theorangeone on Nov 8, 2017 14:07:13 GMT
I'm glad people are beginning to twig this. I've only been saying it for months. TfL have decided we MUST all use Crossrail and pay higher fares. Nice for them but not necessarily nice for some of the poor passengers. Just as they decided people must use tramlink between Croydon and New Addington, although there isn't a premium fare but changing at Addington Village mid winter can be an unpleasant experience. Tramlink has the same fare as a bus though, plus the 64 still runs, doesn't it?
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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 14:19:19 GMT
Just as they decided people must use tramlink between Croydon and New Addington, although there isn't a premium fare but changing at Addington Village mid winter can be an unpleasant experience. Tramlink has the same fare as a bus though, plus the 64 still runs, doesn't it? I did point that out about the fare but the 64 goes via Selsdon, a far cry from the express routes that ran before tramlink.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 8, 2017 14:20:07 GMT
Just as they decided people must use tramlink between Croydon and New Addington, although there isn't a premium fare but changing at Addington Village mid winter can be an unpleasant experience. Tramlink has the same fare as a bus though, plus the 64 still runs, doesn't it? Indeed, plus as well as the 64, there is the 433 & 466 which serve Addington Vilage & Croydon and the 466 is arguably only a small fraction slower than the team due to its routing so lots of choice there.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 8, 2017 14:21:09 GMT
Tramlink has the same fare as a bus though, plus the 64 still runs, doesn't it? I did point that out about the fare but the 64 goes via Selsdon, a far cry from the express routes that ran before tramlink. There's two other bus routes as well, one of which is marginally slower than the Tram due to its routing.
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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 14:33:09 GMT
I did point that out about the fare but the 64 goes via Selsdon, a far cry from the express routes that ran before tramlink. There's two other bus routes as well, one of which is marginally slower than the Tram due to its routing. The 466 only goes to Addington Village so people would still have to change there.
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Post by snowman on Nov 8, 2017 14:33:19 GMT
Not once you factor in the fact it's so many feet underground! The other thing is you're fighting with everyone else on their way to Paddington. I think Crossrail will still be much quicker for journeys like Oxford Circus to Paddington with trains every minute or two and surely there will be far fewer people travelling specifically to Paddington? If you know to walk to Hanover Square and get the Eastern Bond Street entrance then yes If you dont know that, and enter Oxford Circus station, will be quicker to take Bakerloo Remember Crossrail doesn't serve Oxford Circus (nearest stations are Hanover Square / Tenterton Street (walk via Harewood Place or Princes St) and in other direction the new Oxford Street / Dean Street (or is it Great Chapel Street) station entrance
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Post by theorangeone on Nov 8, 2017 14:44:17 GMT
Not once you factor in the fact it's so many feet underground! The other thing is you're fighting with everyone else on their way to Paddington. I think Crossrail will still be much quicker for journeys like Oxford Circus to Paddington with trains every minute or two and surely there will be far fewer people travelling specifically to Paddington? You're right, people taking onward train journeys from Paddington mainline is not the issue. Consider Westbourne Grove, Queensway, Portobello Road and Ladbroke Grove - travelling to any of these is far more easily done by 23 bus (or 7 bus - between the two there's an excellent frequency), and the time difference between bus and tube + walk is negligible. And that's not even mentioning that an excellent and very common use of the Hopper ticket is 7/23/98 + 18 as far up Harrow Road as required - most shorter distance train journeys via Paddington make more sense by bus.
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Post by vjaska on Nov 8, 2017 14:50:55 GMT
There's two other bus routes as well, one of which is marginally slower than the Tram due to its routing. The 466 only goes to Addington Village so people would still have to change there. If you have read my previous post above, I'm very aware of where the 466 goes - anyway, Oxford Street & Addington Village are two completely different & incompatible examples so I'll be leaving it as that.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 8, 2017 17:41:16 GMT
Not once you factor in the fact it's so many feet underground! The other thing is you're fighting with everyone else on their way to Paddington. I think Crossrail will still be much quicker for journeys like Oxford Circus to Paddington with trains every minute or two and surely there will be far fewer people travelling specifically to Paddington? The initial headway when Crossrail opens late 2018 will be a train every 4 minutes. Only a year later will the full headway of a train every 2-3 mins be achieved. On your other point about Tramlink there are three bus services that remain that directly link Addington Village with central Croydon. I'd also argue that Tramlink is vastly more convenient with easy bus to tram interchange in lots of locations and everything is on one level. Therefore there is a virtually zero minutes entry and egress time for everyone including those who are encumbered or in wheelchairs - that will not apply with Crossrail. I know it is not a strictly fair comparison given Crossrail can't run on the surface in Zone 1 *but* it is being foisted on people who may find buses vastly more convenient and you raised Tramlink as a comparitor. I'd argue trams are more convenient than buses in almost every respect.
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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 18:03:20 GMT
I think Crossrail will still be much quicker for journeys like Oxford Circus to Paddington with trains every minute or two and surely there will be far fewer people travelling specifically to Paddington? The initial headway when Crossrail opens late 2018 will be a train every 4 minutes. Only a year later will the full headway of a train every 2-3 mins be achieved. On your other point about Tramlink there are three bus services that remain that directly link Addington Village with central Croydon. I'd also argue that Tramlink is vastly more convenient with easy bus to tram interchange in lots of locations and everything is on one level. Therefore there is a virtually zero minutes entry and egress time for everyone including those who are encumbered or in wheelchairs - that will not apply with Crossrail. I know it is not a strictly fair comparison given Crossrail can't run on the surface in Zone 1 *but* it is being foisted on people who may find buses vastly more convenient and you raised Tramlink as a comparitor. I'd argue trams are more convenient than buses in almost every respect. But only one bus route from Croydon to New Addington and that by an indirect route. Some people have a more difficult journey now whilst obviously others have benefited, just like Crossrail.
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Post by snoggle on Nov 8, 2017 19:20:16 GMT
The initial headway when Crossrail opens late 2018 will be a train every 4 minutes. Only a year later will the full headway of a train every 2-3 mins be achieved. On your other point about Tramlink there are three bus services that remain that directly link Addington Village with central Croydon. I'd also argue that Tramlink is vastly more convenient with easy bus to tram interchange in lots of locations and everything is on one level. Therefore there is a virtually zero minutes entry and egress time for everyone including those who are encumbered or in wheelchairs - that will not apply with Crossrail. I know it is not a strictly fair comparison given Crossrail can't run on the surface in Zone 1 *but* it is being foisted on people who may find buses vastly more convenient and you raised Tramlink as a comparitor. I'd argue trams are more convenient than buses in almost every respect. But only one bus route from Croydon to New Addington and that by an indirect route. Some people have a more difficult journey now whilst obviously others have benefited, just like Crossrail. Yes but you've moved the goal posts because your original reference was to Addington Village Interchange, that you said was cold to wait at, which has three bus services from Croydon doesn't it?
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Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 19:23:48 GMT
But only one bus route from Croydon to New Addington and that by an indirect route. Some people have a more difficult journey now whilst obviously others have benefited, just like Crossrail. Yes but you've moved the goal posts because your original reference was to Addington Village Interchange, that you said was cold to wait at, which has three bus services from Croydon doesn't it? Maybe I didn't explain myself very well but what I meant was that Addington Village isn't a very pleasant interchange in the middle of winter.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 8, 2017 19:27:32 GMT
Yes but you've moved the goal posts because your original reference was to Addington Village Interchange, that you said was cold to wait at, which has three bus services from Croydon doesn't it? Maybe I didn't explain myself very well but what I meant was that Addington Village isn't a very pleasant interchange in the middle of winter. New Addington is a large place, no route will serve it all. The interchange is a better place to change transport than some other locations within New Addington
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