|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 7, 2017 23:15:29 GMT
Totally outweighed? hmm, I don't see Crossrail stopping at John Lewis, Oxford Circus or Selfridges. I can see some benefits pedestrianisation will bring but Crossrail does not "totally outweigh" the inconvenience. Of course it does, people from as far as Reading and Shenfield are whisked in the west end as well as the capacity freed up on the Central Line. While more people lose their links locally. Inconveniencing more local people but helping people further afar isn't totally outweighing the problem. It's just causing a new one.
|
|
|
Post by sid on Nov 7, 2017 23:22:24 GMT
Of course it does, people from as far as Reading and Shenfield are whisked in the west end as well as the capacity freed up on the Central Line. While more people lose their links locally. Inconveniencing more local people but helping people further afar isn't totally outweighing the problem. It's just causing a new one. A few people will be slightly inconvenienced whilst far more will benefit..
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 7, 2017 23:45:53 GMT
Of course it does, people from as far as Reading and Shenfield are whisked in the west end as well as the capacity freed up on the Central Line. While more people lose their links locally. Inconveniencing more local people but helping people further afar isn't totally outweighing the problem. It's just causing a new one. I’d be very surprised if anyone from Reading, Shenfield or similar places will regularly travel to Oxford Street considering that even people from Croydon & Bromley don’t regularly use Oxford Street all that often. Reading has its own shopping centre IIRC, Shenfield is surrounded by a few Essex towns plus those with cars probably drive to Lakeside anyway, Croydon has the Whitgift Centre and is getting a Westfield whilst Bromley has the excellent Glades shopping centre so 9/10, people will visit their local one. My mum doesn’t even go to Oxford Street more than twice a year and look how close Brixton is.
|
|
|
Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 7, 2017 23:58:21 GMT
I totally agree and as you say Oxford Street has lost out to the Westfield Centres. North End in Croydon is a good case in point, there were objections to that at the time but would anybody really want to turn the clock back now? Two bus routes along Wigmore Street is probably all that could be reasonably accommodated, yes there is some inconvenience to some bus users but totally outweighed by the benefits of Crossrail. Totally outweighed? hmm, I don't see Crossrail stopping at John Lewis, Oxford Circus or Selfridges. I can see some benefits pedestrianisation will bring but Crossrail does not "totally outweigh" the inconvenience. Bond Street is in walking distance of all three shops. The Bond Street Crossrail only station is virtually next door to Oxford Circus!
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 8, 2017 0:10:26 GMT
Totally outweighed? hmm, I don't see Crossrail stopping at John Lewis, Oxford Circus or Selfridges. I can see some benefits pedestrianisation will bring but Crossrail does not "totally outweigh" the inconvenience. Bond Street is in walking distance of all three shops. The Bond Street Crossrail only station is virtually next door to Oxford Circus! To be pedantically precise *one* end of Bond St Crossrail is at Hanover Square to the south west of Oxford Circus. Yes it is within walking distance of Oxo but it's a heck of a trek to Marble Arch. Even from the proper Bond St end of the CR stn it is still a trek to Marble Arch. If you are young and fit and unencumbered then yes it won't matter so long as it is not snowing, pouring with rain or blowing a gale or 5 degrees below freezing. If you're laden down with shopping, buggies and babies or not in possession of 25 year old legs and lungs then this all becomes a bit more of a trek.
|
|
|
Post by Whitherminter on Nov 8, 2017 1:40:09 GMT
It's hard me me to compare the pedestrianisation of Oxford Street to a generic shopping street like Bromley as the pedestrianised streets aren't as long. Oxford Street is half a mile. When Croydon was pedestrianised, routes just ran around the centre, routes in this case are being cut back. Not only disrupting those going to shop, but those using the bus to pass through Oxford Street. That journey people would make on the 10 from Knightsbridge to Euston they can no longer make!
Even if I could change buses at Marble Arch...why would I? Crossing the roads in Marble Arch isn't easy. It definitely won't be easy after seeing your bus in the near distance, people would happily run in front of cars to catch their bus/night bus.
Those are my main issues with how Oxford Street will turn out. Other than that I think it'll be ok to walk down in the summer when it's warm and not on a rainy day!
|
|
|
Post by theorangeone on Nov 8, 2017 5:17:39 GMT
While more people lose their links locally. Inconveniencing more local people but helping people further afar isn't totally outweighing the problem. It's just causing a new one. A few people will be slightly inconvenienced whilst far more will benefit.. As one of the aforementioned local people, while I understand the logic behind your statement, it feels as if our concerns have been abandoned by the wayside a little. Here follows a little statement where the term we refers to residents of the Oxford Street area. I can guarantee you that when someone living near to Oxford Circus wishes to get to Paddington, they will climb aboard a number 7 or 23 for a short, relatively uncongested bus ride - as opposed to battling our way onto the tube, which is almost exclusively a tourist commodity. The same goes with Victoria (C2 with 73 as slightly slower backup - though now we are forced to use the 390), Vauxhall (88), Euston (73 or 390 - though the SPs on the 10 used to be by far the fastest option when they ran), Notting Hill Gate (94), Bank and most City destinations, plus even London Bridge (25), Kilburn (98), Knightsbridge (10), the list goes on. That said, perhaps we've been overprivileged with connections for too long, and need taking down a peg or two - there's a general view that anyone who lives in Zone 2+ - or even bits of Zone 1 - is most accurately classified as a tourist and we may relate better to the rest of London with fewer connections. Still can't see anyone here getting onto Crossrail though - not unless we're travelling beyond Whitechapel or Paddington. Then there's the issue of Wigmore Street - but we're all ditching our cars in a few years anyway due to the introduction of the ULEZ so increased traffic levels there won't affect us that much. It's not as though we walk down it anyway. The main problem will probably be Marble Arch, which is freezing cold most of the year and waiting there is to be avoided if at all possible...
|
|
|
Post by sid on Nov 8, 2017 7:19:03 GMT
A few people will be slightly inconvenienced whilst far more will benefit.. As one of the aforementioned local people, while I understand the logic behind your statement, it feels as if our concerns have been abandoned by the wayside a little. Here follows a little statement where the term we refers to residents of the Oxford Street area. I can guarantee you that when someone living near to Oxford Circus wishes to get to Paddington, they will climb aboard a number 7 or 23 for a short, relatively uncongested bus ride - as opposed to battling our way onto the tube, which is almost exclusively a tourist commodity. The same goes with Victoria (C2 with 73 as slightly slower backup - though now we are forced to use the 390), Vauxhall (88), Euston (73 or 390 - though the SPs on the 10 used to be by far the fastest option when they ran), Notting Hill Gate (94), Bank and most City destinations, plus even London Bridge (25), Kilburn (98), Knightsbridge (10), the list goes on. That said, perhaps we've been overprivileged with connections for too long, and need taking down a peg or two - there's a general view that anyone who lives in Zone 2+ - or even bits of Zone 1 - is most accurately classified as a tourist and we may relate better to the rest of London with fewer connections. Still can't see anyone here getting onto Crossrail though - not unless we're travelling beyond Whitechapel or Paddington. Then there's the issue of Wigmore Street - but we're all ditching our cars in a few years anyway due to the introduction of the ULEZ so increased traffic levels there won't affect us that much. It's not as though we walk down it anyway. The main problem will probably be Marble Arch, which is freezing cold most of the year and waiting there is to be avoided if at all possible... I'm not sure Marble Arch is freezing for most of the year but I understand what you're saying. But surely Crossrail will be the easiest way from Oxford Circus to Paddington? Yes I know it'll cost more than the bus but it'll be a lot quicker.
|
|
|
Post by theorangeone on Nov 8, 2017 9:33:43 GMT
As one of the aforementioned local people, while I understand the logic behind your statement, it feels as if our concerns have been abandoned by the wayside a little. Here follows a little statement where the term we refers to residents of the Oxford Street area. I can guarantee you that when someone living near to Oxford Circus wishes to get to Paddington, they will climb aboard a number 7 or 23 for a short, relatively uncongested bus ride - as opposed to battling our way onto the tube, which is almost exclusively a tourist commodity. The same goes with Victoria (C2 with 73 as slightly slower backup - though now we are forced to use the 390), Vauxhall (88), Euston (73 or 390 - though the SPs on the 10 used to be by far the fastest option when they ran), Notting Hill Gate (94), Bank and most City destinations, plus even London Bridge (25), Kilburn (98), Knightsbridge (10), the list goes on. That said, perhaps we've been overprivileged with connections for too long, and need taking down a peg or two - there's a general view that anyone who lives in Zone 2+ - or even bits of Zone 1 - is most accurately classified as a tourist and we may relate better to the rest of London with fewer connections. Still can't see anyone here getting onto Crossrail though - not unless we're travelling beyond Whitechapel or Paddington. Then there's the issue of Wigmore Street - but we're all ditching our cars in a few years anyway due to the introduction of the ULEZ so increased traffic levels there won't affect us that much. It's not as though we walk down it anyway. The main problem will probably be Marble Arch, which is freezing cold most of the year and waiting there is to be avoided if at all possible... I'm not sure Marble Arch is freezing for most of the year but I understand what you're saying. But surely Crossrail will be the easiest way from Oxford Circus to Paddington? Yes I know it'll cost more than the bus but it'll be a lot quicker. Not once you factor in the fact it's so many feet underground! The other thing is you're fighting with everyone else on their way to Paddington.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 9:40:12 GMT
Have to agree with above comments. The assumption that cross rail / tube is quicker for short hop journeys may not always be accurate, once you take into account the descent and assent, queuing and waiting time.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 8, 2017 12:26:15 GMT
Have to agree with above comments. The assumption that cross rail / tube is quicker for short hop journeys may not always be accurate, once you take into account the descent and assent, queuing and waiting time. I'm glad people are beginning to twig this. I've only been saying it for months. TfL have decided we MUST all use Crossrail and pay higher fares. Nice for them but not necessarily nice for some of the poor passengers.
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Nov 8, 2017 12:53:47 GMT
Have to agree with above comments. The assumption that cross rail / tube is quicker for short hop journeys may not always be accurate, once you take into account the descent and assent, queuing and waiting time. Exactly. And a short hop like Paddington - Oxford Circus is only worth considering by rail if you happen to be travelling to/from somewhere very close to the station. There are many, many short trips in central London where the bus is easily the best option because it takes you much closer to where you need to be.
|
|
|
Post by overgroundcommuter on Nov 8, 2017 13:05:04 GMT
While it's true that there are some very short hop journeys which are more convenient by bus. Trafalgar Square to Tottenham Court Road for example, Crossrail is still going to be a quicker proposition than the bus from Bond Street to Paddington despite having to use escalators or lifts to reach the platforms.
We're going to have to face facts that bus journeys are becoming longer thanks to congestion, but also by controllers holding buses back to regulate the service, which makes the whole bus experience less than enjoyable for all but the most local of journeys during the daytime period.
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Nov 8, 2017 13:36:05 GMT
While it's true that there are some very short hop journeys which are more convenient by bus. Trafalgar Square to Tottenham Court Road for example, Crossrail is still going to be a quicker proposition than the bus from Bond Street to Paddington despite having to use escalators or lifts to reach the platforms. We're going to have to face facts that bus journeys are becoming longer thanks to congestion, but also by controllers holding buses back to regulate the service, which makes the whole bus experience less than enjoyable for all but the most local of journeys during the daytime period. Bond Street to Paddington is an odd journey, the question is what fraction of people end their journey at Paddington, some will want stations along the line, and from Dec 2019 will not need to change to do that. However I agree it rarely makes sence to take tube 1 or 2 stops as the vertical change time means usually quicker to walk, in my experience walking down the next parallel (quiet) road is usually the fastest journey unless journey is more than about 11 minutes.
|
|
|
Post by theorangeone on Nov 8, 2017 13:39:51 GMT
While it's true that there are some very short hop journeys which are more convenient by bus. Trafalgar Square to Tottenham Court Road for example, Crossrail is still going to be a quicker proposition than the bus from Bond Street to Paddington despite having to use escalators or lifts to reach the platforms. We're going to have to face facts that bus journeys are becoming longer thanks to congestion, but also by controllers holding buses back to regulate the service, which makes the whole bus experience less than enjoyable for all but the most local of journeys during the daytime period. Quicker by a handful of minutes, though - not enough minutes to balance out the cost saving, not by far! According to timetables it's about 13 minutes in the morning peak, 15 at midday, 20 in the evening peak, 10 at the fringe hours (early morning/late evening) - with Crossrail taking about 10 minutes with escalators factored in, assuming you're starting directly outside the station. That's a saving of 5 minutes between the peaks, none in the fringe, and given that crowding's gonna add about 5 minutes to your journey time during peak hours, the 23 comes out as faster in the morning and Crossrail still gets you that small 5 minute saving in the evening. Granted, I'm using today's 23 timings which don't factor in increased traffic levels in 2018, but... well... still not enough for catching a train to be a good idea. Bond Street to Paddington is an odd journey, the question is what fraction of people end their journey at Paddington, some will want stations along the line, and from Dec 2019 will not need to change to do that. However I agree it rarely makes sence to take tube 1 or 2 stops as the vertical change time means usually quicker to walk, in my experience walking down the next parallel (quiet) road is usually the fastest journey unless journey is more than about 11 minutes. Any onward journeys on Crossrail beyond Paddington would undoubtedly be carried out by boarding Crossrail at Bond Street - with the possible exception of to Reading. Onward journeys on other lines from Paddington, on the other hand, are almost certainly (unless you're going to Willesden Junction and beyond) going to be a bus job.
|
|