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Post by snoggle on Jan 14, 2018 12:24:25 GMT
TfL are not playing this "hold on, this bus is about to move" message to inform/warn passengers. They are doing it to resist any form of lawsuits, judged by the fact that the message is played after the bus moves. It's just a box ticking exercise this message is, pure and simple. I'm sorry but if you read the relevant TfL Panel and Board papers and their response to the Assembly report on bus safety you will see this simply is not the case. The biggest accident risk on buses is slips, trips and falls. Asking people to hold on as the bus is about to move is an attempt to deal with part of this risk portfolio. How long before we get "please remain in your seats until the bus has stopped"? This will be to try to reduce the issues on stairs on double deckers. Of course, dwell time at stops will go south meaning longer journeys for everyone and worse services as TfL cut frequencies to cope with the longer round trip times. All of this is driven by politicians. Look back over the last 2 years worth of Mayor's Questions. Look at the stuff from Comadad. This is where all the responsibility sits for the mire we are descending into to. We will have 100% safe buses because they'll have no passengers in time if we carry on like this. Making a safe public transport mode unpopular and forcing people onto less safe modes is no way to improve safety but the politicians have become fixated on making buses safer than railways which is a questionable objective IMO. I agree with TB141 that the issue with the new message is its timing relative to what the bus is actually doing. This is what is causing the ridicule and comments coupled with incredulity about being told to hold on. The whole thing could have been implemented more effectively and with some supporting media coverage to explain the purpose of the message.
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Post by John tuthill on Jan 14, 2018 12:44:53 GMT
TfL are not playing this "hold on, this bus is about to move" message to inform/warn passengers. They are doing it to resist any form of lawsuits, judged by the fact that the message is played after the bus moves. It's just a box ticking exercise this message is, pure and simple. I'm sorry but if you read the relevant TfL Panel and Board papers and their response to the Assembly report on bus safety you will see this simply is not the case. The biggest accident risk on buses is slips, trips and falls. Asking people to hold on as the bus is about to move is an attempt to deal with part of this risk portfolio. How long before we get "please remain in your seats until the bus has stopped"? This will be to try to reduce the issues on stairs on double deckers. Of course, dwell time at stops will go south meaning longer journeys for everyone and worse services as TfL cut frequencies to cope with the longer round trip times. All of this is driven by politicians. Look back over the last 2 years worth of Mayor's Questions. Look at the stuff from Comadad. This is where all the responsibility sits for the mire we are descending into to. We will have 100% safe buses because they'll have no passengers in time if we carry on like this. Making a safe public transport mode unpopular and forcing people onto less safe modes is no way to improve safety but the politicians have become fixated on making buses safer than railways which is a questionable objective IMO. I agree with TB141 that the issue with the new message is its timing relative to what the bus is actually doing. This is what is causing the ridicule and comments coupled with incredulity about being told to hold on. The whole thing could have been implemented more effectively and with some supporting media coverage to explain the purpose of the message. I think they are still open to lawsuits-before the 'moving off' message we should hear "Mind the doors" and when pulling up at the kerb "Mind the gap"(Also of course in 96 different languages)
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 14, 2018 17:10:26 GMT
snoggle where there are humans, there is human error. Accidents are bound to happen in any format you apply to life. I've actually gotten a papercut in my place of work, but the manager looked at me in disgust as he had to write up the paperwork & risk assessment forms so as to prevent my accident from happening again. I'm sure he wasn't happy writing "I can stop my employees from getting a papercut by..." I want to know why these nanny-state messages aren't rolled out on the Tube, Overground and DLR. On the Overground, the announcements after departing a station* is to "keep your personal belongings with you at all times". There is nothing stopping me from thinking that is linked to the previous infrastructure set-up by Silverlink of having no barriers at their stations. Yet the rest of the London rail network do no have this message. There are reminders (normally at interchanges) to alight with all your possessions on the Tube and DLR, but the Overground reminds you to hold on to your stuff as if it's pre-empting a mugging before you get off the train. *Can't remember if it's every other station or just interchanges, but you are certain to hear this announcement no matter how long or short your journey is on the Overground.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 17:27:53 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Jan 14, 2018 18:53:10 GMT
snoggle where there are humans, there is human error. Accidents are bound to happen in any format you apply to life. I've actually gotten a papercut in my place of work, but the manager looked at me in disgust as he had to write up the paperwork & risk assessment forms so as to prevent my accident from happening again. I'm sure he wasn't happy writing "I can stop my employees from getting a papercut by..." I want to know why these nanny-state messages aren't rolled out on the Tube, Overground and DLR. On the Overground, the announcements after departing a station* is to "keep your personal belongings with you at all times". There is nothing stopping me from thinking that is linked to the previous infrastructure set-up by Silverlink of having no barriers at their stations. Yet the rest of the London rail network do no have this message. There are reminders (normally at interchanges) to alight with all your possessions on the Tube and DLR, but the Overground reminds you to hold on to your stuff as if it's pre-empting a mugging before you get off the train. *Can't remember if it's every other station or just interchanges, but you are certain to hear this announcement no matter how long or short your journey is on the Overground. The bus network has different risks to the rail network. Buses are subject to a far more unpredictable environment that bus drivers have to cope with. Trains will typically perform in a far predictable fashion than a bus might. Trains also have far more hand holds and strap hangers than buses. The age profile on buses is also very different with more senior citizens and people with mobility issues than the rail network. The tube network has a plethora of signs and posters and occasional announcements about "do not run", "Be careful on slippy floors", "Take care on stairs and escalators", "Hold the hand rail" , "Be careful if you have drunk alcohol" etc. I saw a load of posters and signs to this effect just yesterday evening. I would not be surprised if "hold on, the train is about to move" message also migrates to the TfL controlled rail network. The announcements about personal belongings are security driven because unattended bags and parcels may be deemed to be bombs with a lot of resultant disruption to services while an investigation takes place. It makes perfect sense, when the terror level is high, to remind people to be attentive to their belongings. There is plenty of evidence to support this policy from past bombing incidents on the tube, DLR and rail network. I really don't think accident reports about paper cuts have any bearing whatsoever on the need for appropriate risk mitigation measures on the transport network. I speak as someone who had departmental Health, Safety and security responsibilities in their senior management role over and above those I had as a line manager responsible for employees and premises.
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Post by enviroPB on Jan 14, 2018 19:19:27 GMT
snoggle where there are humans, there is human error. Accidents are bound to happen in any format you apply to life. I've actually gotten a papercut in my place of work, but the manager looked at me in disgust as he had to write up the paperwork & risk assessment forms so as to prevent my accident from happening again. I'm sure he wasn't happy writing "I can stop my employees from getting a papercut by..." I want to know why these nanny-state messages aren't rolled out on the Tube, Overground and DLR. On the Overground, the announcements after departing a station* is to "keep your personal belongings with you at all times". There is nothing stopping me from thinking that is linked to the previous infrastructure set-up by Silverlink of having no barriers at their stations. Yet the rest of the London rail network do no have this message. There are reminders (normally at interchanges) to alight with all your possessions on the Tube and DLR, but the Overground reminds you to hold on to your stuff as if it's pre-empting a mugging before you get off the train. *Can't remember if it's every other station or just interchanges, but you are certain to hear this announcement no matter how long or short your journey is on the Overground. The bus network has different risks to the rail network. Buses are subject to a far more unpredictable environment that bus drivers have to cope with. Trains will typically perform in a far predictable fashion than a bus might. Trains also have far more hand holds and strap hangers than buses. The age profile on buses is also very different with more senior citizens and people with mobility issues than the rail network. The tube network has a plethora of signs and posters and occasional announcements about "do not run", "Be careful on slippy floors", "Take care on stairs and escalators", "Hold the hand rail" , "Be careful if you have drunk alcohol" etc. I saw a load of posters and signs to this effect just yesterday evening. I would not be surprised if "hold on, the train is about to move" message also migrates to the TfL controlled rail network. The announcements about personal belongings are security driven because unattended bags and parcels may be deemed to be bombs with a lot of resultant disruption to services while an investigation takes place. It makes perfect sense, when the terror level is high, to remind people to be attentive to their belongings. There is plenty of evidence to support this policy from past bombing incidents on the tube, DLR and rail network. I really don't think accident reports about paper cuts have any bearing whatsoever on the need for appropriate risk mitigation measures on the transport network. I speak as someone who had departmental Health, Safety and security responsibilities in their senior management role over and above those I had as a line manager responsible for employees and premises. My point about the paper cut is that accidents cannot fully be forecasted. I feel and fear that this message was borne to drastically reduce accidents on the bus network; but that is not feasible and arguably statistically impossible to eradicate all accidents & injuries. The volume of bus passenger journeys made per annum simply won't allow for much reduction.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 14, 2018 20:04:18 GMT
This announcement is presently pointless and pretty irritating- especially on buses where the volume is set at an ear splitting level. I'm on a 177 from Plumstead to New Cross and already regretting it by Woolwich. It's penetrating through my noise cancelling headphones!
The iBus system is great, but it would be nice if it wasn't used to pollute people with excessively repetitive verbal diarrhoea like some Train Operating Companies do with their auto announcements. I can see it being removed fairly promptly.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 14, 2018 20:15:10 GMT
This announcement is presently pointless and pretty irritating- especially on buses where the volume is set at an ear splitting level. I'm on a 177 from Plumstead to New Cross and already regretting it by Woolwich. It's penetrating through my noise cancelling headphones! The iBus system is great, but it would be nice if it wasn't used to pollute people with excessively repetitive verbal diarrhoea like some Train Operating Companies do with their auto announcements. I can see it being removed fairly promptly. Enjoy yourself on the Victoria Line then pretty sure the DVA on that line tells you what it would like for Breakfast.
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Post by danorak on Jan 14, 2018 22:17:13 GMT
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Post by vjaska on Jan 14, 2018 22:53:57 GMT
Off topic but Father Ted is such a stupidly funny program
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Post by gloriouswater on Jan 14, 2018 23:22:46 GMT
Now if that was the announcement played at every stop then people wouldn't be so "Down with this sort of thing!" over this
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Post by vjaska on Jan 14, 2018 23:31:06 GMT
Now if that was the announcement played at every stop then people wouldn't be so "Down with this sort of thing!" over this Have one of Father Jack's legendary lines played at every stop - SIT, GO, BRAKE, GET OFF
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 15, 2018 0:05:06 GMT
More likely after the announcement, Jack than says FECK OFF!
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Post by allentc on Jan 15, 2018 7:56:43 GMT
Like others have said the announcement is laughably ineffective. They need to link it to the door closing buttons so that it plays about 1-2 seconds afterwards. On all my journeys on Saturday the message was played either when passengers were still boarding or long after the bus had left the bus stop.
I feel like this has been implemented on the recommendation of TFL's lawyers to fend off any lawsuits. Clearly bus drivers should wait if an elderly or disabled person is making their way to a seat - from my experience the vast majority do wait. Everyone else I have no sympathy for. Buses move, thats what they do! When you board a bus you should anticipate it moving off at any time and therefore be holding or be near a handrail at all times.
What about traffic lights? Should a message be played when the lights turn green and the bus moves off? The same when a bus moves after having been in a line of traffic.
A lot of passengers wear headphones these days so they won't hear the message anyway.
Lol, at enviroPB's papercut comment. Perhaps we should have "Beware of sharp edge" printed all round the sides of a sheet of paper! A papercut is not trivial, technically you could get sepsis from one.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 15, 2018 8:00:58 GMT
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