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Post by grubbysa on Sept 10, 2018 21:29:37 GMT
Seems to me like this could be a step towards fully withdrawing the 292. With suggestions of reductions both on cross border routes and on the Edgware Road corridor. Looking at specific journey times, the 107 is actually slightly quicker from Edgware to the town centre in Borehamwood. The 292 is only quicker to the surburbs to the east of Borehamwood. An alternative could be to reroute the 292 from Stirling Corner, with a DD service every 12-15 minutes between Colindale and Cockfosters. However, I think the 251 could be an alternative route to link Edgware to Barnet. It serves Mill Hill, so this would gain a new link to Barnet. Divert the 251 from Whetstone to Barnet Spires, going via the 326 but without the Dollis Valley loop. The section to Arnos Grove from Whetstone to fully duplicated by the 34, so could be unreplaced, plus the 221 links New Southgate to Mill Hill and Edgware. Then divert the 326 through Totteridge Village (providing new links there), then along Barnet Lane (already partly served by the 606) to existing line of route at High Barnet Station. By serving Barnet Lane, the long Dollis Valley loop may not be needed anymore - if there is some demand for a service directly within the estate, the 389 could even be modified to serve it. Then also extend the 326 slightly to terminate at Hadley Green (if stand space can be found), to serve the north end of the high street by a TFL service. I believe buses are not able to use the unserved part of Barnet Lane as the lanes do get tight, not impossible to get through with a bus but it seems too narrow for TfL liking otherwise I imagine 605 would actually use it to serve the Totteride Academy instead of dumping pupils at Totteridge War Memorial.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 10, 2018 22:28:54 GMT
A real mixed bag by the looks of it: If your a 292 passenger who travels to Borehamwood and aren't near the 107, you get a raw deal out of this consultation with your route dropping to every 20 minutes. During the regular period I used it, albeit only on Saturdays, it was certainly a decent loaded route throughout the day but no idea how it's been over the last 2-3 years. If your a 384 passenger, it depends where you board & alight as to determine how good this proposal is. From an outsiders point of view, making it far more direct between Cockfosters & Barnet certainly looks good however, I'd be amazed if there wasn't a lot of demand from the roads that will no longer have a bus service - whilst I did only ride the route the once (with a DES), many of these roads is where people boarded and alighted including a wheelchair user and thats my worry with such a change (as well as the sneaky 50m increase to the 400m limit), especially as route like the 384 were introduced to not be the most direct but to penetrate areas with lots of housing and smaller roads. I, as someone who often uses the 292 and also goes to Barnet here and there too have a mixed opinion: 292 - Annoying thats its been cut in frequency, but tbh could of got a more worse off deal, 20 minutes isn't necessarily so bad and its only a 5 minute decrease from current frequency, would rather this then the route to go completely or be something more stupid like hourly (Which I know wouldn't happen but still). The 384 is a useful extension for people to do a straight forward A-B between Edgware and High Barnet, before it was a nightmare for me having to get a 251 to Totteridge and then swap for the tube, however I can sympathise with anyone who is losing the 384 on the back roads in Barnet, so theoretically the 384s plan could be good and bad, benefitting people who want to go from Edgware/Mill Hill - Barnet and vice versa but at the same time taking something away from some roads in Barnet. I guess with this it will be interesting to see how it all pans out really. I'm very sceptical that the 292 will be fine - I can't see people accepting to wait 5 minutes longer though I accept there isn't an alternative bus route. However, there are other means and this is the sort of cut that could quite easily drive people to use minicabs/Ubers or drive. I could see a restructuring being proposed but not with the 107 - maybe getting the 303 to run to Broadfields and the 288 to be restructured as a Queensbury to Borehamwood route Hopefully, I'm proved seriously wrong though
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Post by planesandtrains on Sept 12, 2018 10:31:22 GMT
I do wonder if this change would have an impact on Uno's commercial 614 route which currently does the direct Barnet to Edgware link.
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Post by redexpress on Sept 12, 2018 10:40:14 GMT
I do wonder if this change would have an impact on Uno's commercial 614 route which currently does the direct Barnet to Edgware link. I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected.
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 12, 2018 12:41:14 GMT
I do wonder if this change would have an impact on Uno's commercial 614 route which currently does the direct Barnet to Edgware link. I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. I don’t think it would be cheaper than an oyster fare on the 107 anyway. Uno does offer a £4 London only day ticket but that’s only cheaper than 107 if someone’s making 3 or more journeys in a day
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 12, 2018 13:55:47 GMT
Seems to me like this could be a step towards fully withdrawing the 292. With suggestions of reductions both on cross border routes and on the Edgware Road corridor. Looking at specific journey times, the 107 is actually slightly quicker from Edgware to the town centre in Borehamwood. The 292 is only quicker to the surburbs to the east of Borehamwood. An alternative could be to reroute the 292 from Stirling Corner, with a DD service every 12-15 minutes between Colindale and Cockfosters. However, I think the 251 could be an alternative route to link Edgware to Barnet. It serves Mill Hill, so this would gain a new link to Barnet. Divert the 251 from Whetstone to Barnet Spires, going via the 326 but without the Dollis Valley loop. The section to Arnos Grove from Whetstone to fully duplicated by the 34, so could be unreplaced, plus the 221 links New Southgate to Mill Hill and Edgware. Then divert the 326 through Totteridge Village (providing new links there), then along Barnet Lane (already partly served by the 606) to existing line of route at High Barnet Station. By serving Barnet Lane, the long Dollis Valley loop may not be needed anymore - if there is some demand for a service directly within the estate, the 389 could even be modified to serve it. Then also extend the 326 slightly to terminate at Hadley Green (if stand space can be found), to serve the north end of the high street by a TFL service. I believe buses are not able to use the unserved part of Barnet Lane as the lanes do get tight, not impossible to get through with a bus but it seems too narrow for TfL liking otherwise I imagine 605 would actually use it to serve the Totteride Academy instead of dumping pupils at Totteridge War Memorial. From streetviewing, the roads do look wide enough for buses to use. However there is likely a height restriction due to a lot of low trees - which would prevent the 605 from serving it, but should be fine for single deckers.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 12, 2018 13:56:32 GMT
I do wonder if this change would have an impact on Uno's commercial 614 route which currently does the direct Barnet to Edgware link. I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. Not really sure why the 614 goes as far as Queensbury? Couldn't it terminate at Edgware?
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 12, 2018 14:01:13 GMT
I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. Not really sure why the 614 goes as far as Queensbury? Couldn't it terminate at Edgware? I presume there’s demand for those connecting from the Jubilee line
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Post by COBO on Sept 12, 2018 14:14:29 GMT
I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. Not really sure why the 614 goes as far as Queensbury? Couldn't it terminate at Edgware? Where in Edgware?
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Post by VWH1414 on Sept 12, 2018 14:51:02 GMT
I do wonder if this change would have an impact on Uno's commercial 614 route which currently does the direct Barnet to Edgware link. I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. It also goes onto Hatfield, where no London routes go, home to a few universities, so it'll still get its use Although a slight drop in patronage may occur, but I wouldn't think anything major considering the 384 isn't going to Hatfield.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 12, 2018 16:44:19 GMT
I suspect Uno don't make much money out of the local links that they happen to provide within London. The main purpose of the 614 is to cater for demand to & from the University - from both Barnet and Edgware - so I guess it won't be affected. It also goes onto Hatfield, where no London routes go, home to a few universities, so it'll still get its use Although a slight drop in patronage may occur, but I wouldn't think anything major considering the 384 isn't going to Hatfield. I doubt many commuters will travel to Hatfield from Queensbury or beyond
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Post by kmkcheng on Sept 12, 2018 17:08:56 GMT
There have been some moans about the cut in frequency of the 292 but we need to remember the section with the cut in frequency is in Herts, not London where TFL have no obligation to provide a service in those parts and should still be grateful that they are still providing this local service. Also with the frequency cut, it’s still the second most frequent route in Borehamwood after the 107, and 20 minutes is still a decent frequency in those parts compared to other local half-hourly, hourly or even infrequent routes that some locals have to deal with.
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Post by VWH1414 on Sept 12, 2018 17:10:13 GMT
It also goes onto Hatfield, where no London routes go, home to a few universities, so it'll still get its use Although a slight drop in patronage may occur, but I wouldn't think anything major considering the 384 isn't going to Hatfield. I doubt many commuters will travel to Hatfield from Queensbury or beyond Like I said there are universities there... No other links can get you there, so people from Queensbury and beyond will go to Hatfield if there is a university they want to go to because it specialises in something etc. Besides I always see uni/college students on the 614, so yes people do travel to Hatfield and I've seen people get on at Queensbury.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2018 17:39:52 GMT
It also goes onto Hatfield, where no London routes go, home to a few universities, so it'll still get its use Although a slight drop in patronage may occur, but I wouldn't think anything major considering the 384 isn't going to Hatfield. I doubt many commuters will travel to Hatfield from Queensbury or beyond It’s not a commuter route - it’s a route mainly catered to students and possibly any staff who travel by bus although there is cross border demand from regular passengers.
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Post by snoggle on Sept 12, 2018 19:53:18 GMT
It also goes onto Hatfield, where no London routes go, home to a few universities, so it'll still get its use Although a slight drop in patronage may occur, but I wouldn't think anything major considering the 384 isn't going to Hatfield. I doubt many commuters will travel to Hatfield from Queensbury or beyond As others have said it is not a traditional commuter route but it would have been withdrawn many moons ago if it wasn't making money. Heck Uno invested in a new fleet of vehicles for it so it must be a reasonable money spinner. I've only ever seen it in Greater London and it has *always* had passengers on it. I once saw it in the PM peak heading towards Queensbury and it had a decent loading on it. Obviously Uno have a connection with Hatfield University so there is an element of facilitating student access to the University but they're not a charity. When I was in Edgware recently I seriously considered catching it to Barnet as a way of getting home. TfL won't allow the route into the bus station or Uno won't pay whatever departure charges TfL want so there is no point in trying to curtail it in Edgware as there are no obvious turning / stand options. I'd argue Edgware Bus Station is borderline over capacity anyway - it can't take many more buses per hour.
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