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Post by vjaska on Sept 26, 2019 15:21:33 GMT
If the 55 and 88 extensions are considered feasible by tfl then an extra 19-20 mins on the 68 to Hampstead Heath is. Tfl will make things work of it suits them. The 55 extension is up the road from Bakers Arms so is an entirely different kettle of fish - yes Hoe Street is traffic filled due to a lack of intelligence from the traffic planners but it's still doable. The 68 might be 19-20 minutes from Hampstead Heath at quiet times but your forgetting it has to negotiate Central London, Elephant, Walworth Road - heck, even Herne Hill snarls up at times - add in Camden Town and your asking for trouble. Just because TfL considers something feasible, doesn't mean it's correct - people need to come away from this idea of simply reintroducing LT style routes as some sort of solution as to me, it rather sounds like a solution looking for a problem as already coined by wirewiperPut simply, if people want these sort of routes and in a reliable form, then attitudes towards congestion need to change and it doesn't seem likely that will happen anytime soon.
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Post by joefrombow on Sept 26, 2019 18:34:51 GMT
I have a idea is to have 8 merge with the 98 so have one route Willesden to Bow Road I know have gone made but just an idea Like your earlier proposal, totally unviable. Congestion has increased significantly since this routing was actually in existence and such a lengthy route would simply fall over in reliability terms. I agree with you , in the daytime extra long routes would be totally ridiculous these routes would never work nowadays , would be a crawl across London and the service would be up in arms , however I do think a number of N routes could start a lot earlier for example the 253/254 could stop at say 22:00 and the N253 which covers both and some more start running then until 05:00 and even later on weekends like 08:00 on a Sunday Morning .
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Post by rif153 on Sept 26, 2019 20:35:14 GMT
I think its pathetic that TfL will use the reliability excuse when it suits them but extend any route to save some money, if it suits them.
Its a shame congestion in Central London is so abhorrent. At the moment I certainly agree that routes like the 1, 68, 188 etc. wouldn't cope well with lengthy extensions, these routes are already a pig to operate so would become inoperable with an extra section. However, if someone was serious about resolving congestion and actually speeding up buses, then I think merging routes like the 1 and 168 would create viable new cross-city links, and reduce overbussing on Kingsway - thus alleviating the need to cut the 171 back. However, that is merely a fantasy as I know, so for now, shorter more reliable routes are more sensible than long unreliable routes.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 26, 2019 21:23:22 GMT
Long ago there was talk of the 188 being cut to Elephant as part of a package of improvements for Conveys Whalf with I think another Greenwich to central London route. Hard to see that happening now with a move away from buses in central London. More likely just be cut back anyways now.
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Post by rif153 on Sept 26, 2019 22:14:55 GMT
Long ago there was talk of the 188 being cut to Elephant as part of a package of improvements for Conveys Whalf with I think another Greenwich to central London route. Hard to see that happening now with a move away from buses in central London. More likely just be cut back anyways now. I have a colleague who lives in Greenwich/Maze Hill.
This is his assesment of the 188, and why he no longer uses to get to work:
'I love the 188, I really do, its such a useful route, and a great one to have on your doorstep. Unfortunately its not viable for me to use to get to work. I accept that if the route were rerouted to run directly from Waterloo to City Hall, its patronage would take a huge hit. However, it would also create new useful links making the route much more direct. I think there should be two routes. The 188 should be cutback to Waterloo to improves its reliability, as at the moment with the traffic on Tower Bridge Road you can get huge gaps, and buses crawl along there. Another route should be created which runs directly from Russell Square to Greenwich, but via the 381 between Waterloo and City Hall.'
That's not an exact quotation but hopefully it gives you an idea of his view. The 188 is one of my favourite routes in London, I'm no expert but I do this that having a direct route, and one to Elephant could work.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 28, 2019 12:08:46 GMT
Something I noticed yesterday was the fact a scrolling message has been added to the 48.
"For more information visit tfl.gov.uk/pembuschanges"
It only seems to scroll every minute and there's no indication at all on it that the 48 is being withdrawn, it's like they're trying to cover it up as much as possible right until the last day which I imagine is when the withdrawal notice will be added to that message on the iBus display.
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Post by busaholic on Sept 28, 2019 13:01:37 GMT
Long ago there was talk of the 188 being cut to Elephant as part of a package of improvements for Conveys Whalf with I think another Greenwich to central London route. Hard to see that happening now with a move away from buses in central London. More likely just be cut back anyways now. I have a colleague who lives in Greenwich/Maze Hill.
This is his assesment of the 188, and why he no longer uses to get to work:
'I love the 188, I really do, its such a useful route, and a great one to have on your doorstep. Unfortunately its not viable for me to use to get to work. I accept that if the route were rerouted to run directly from Waterloo to City Hall, its patronage would take a huge hit. However, it would also create new useful links making the route much more direct. I think there should be two routes. The 188 should be cutback to Waterloo to improves its reliability, as at the moment with the traffic on Tower Bridge Road you can get huge gaps, and buses crawl along there. Another route should be created which runs directly from Russell Square to Greenwich, but via the 381 between Waterloo and City Hall.'
That's not an exact quotation but hopefully it gives you an idea of his view. The 188 is one of my favourite routes in London, I'm no expert but I do this that having a direct route, and one to Elephant could work.
The 70 used to run from Waterloo to Greenwich hugging the Thames all the way.
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Post by rj131 on Sept 28, 2019 13:05:23 GMT
Something I noticed yesterday was the fact a scrolling message has been added to the 48. "For more information visit tfl.gov.uk/pembuschanges" It only seems to scroll every minute and there's no indication at all on it that the 48 is being withdrawn, it's like they're trying to cover it up as much as possible right until the last day which I imagine is when the withdrawal notice will be added to that message on the iBus display. It’s so bad 😡
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Post by rif153 on Sept 28, 2019 17:29:24 GMT
I have a colleague who lives in Greenwich/Maze Hill.
This is his assesment of the 188, and why he no longer uses to get to work:
'I love the 188, I really do, its such a useful route, and a great one to have on your doorstep. Unfortunately its not viable for me to use to get to work. I accept that if the route were rerouted to run directly from Waterloo to City Hall, its patronage would take a huge hit. However, it would also create new useful links making the route much more direct. I think there should be two routes. The 188 should be cutback to Waterloo to improves its reliability, as at the moment with the traffic on Tower Bridge Road you can get huge gaps, and buses crawl along there. Another route should be created which runs directly from Russell Square to Greenwich, but via the 381 between Waterloo and City Hall.'
That's not an exact quotation but hopefully it gives you an idea of his view. The 188 is one of my favourite routes in London, I'm no expert but I do this that having a direct route, and one to Elephant could work.
The 70 used to run from Waterloo to Greenwich hugging the Thames all the way.I wonder if a Woolwich-Holborn route could be created. It would assist the 177 on the Greenwich-Woolwich corridor once the 180 is needlessly hacked back, something I know many such as route53 are unhappy about. Furthermore, this route wpuld provide a direct through route from Greenwich to Waterloo and beyond for 188 passengers wishing to go north of the Thames who are put off by the routing via Elephant which slows the route down. I think 6bph would suit this route, the 188 isn't too well used north of Waterloo, and the 180 runs at 6bph already, so this route would replenish the lost capacity between Woolwich and Greenwich. Perhaps some peak extras could be added due to the immense demand between Holborn and Waterloo, especially since the 171 was hacked back. Under this plan, the 188 would be cutback to Waterloo. The main problem with this route is its length. This route would have a lot of congestion to battle with along its line of route making it an operational nightmare. Congestion will inevitably worsen along this route too once CS4 comes along. This route was essentially me fusing two ideas for buses in Greenwich together, however I realise its impractical.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2019 8:04:33 GMT
The 70 used to run from Waterloo to Greenwich hugging the Thames all the way. I wonder if a Woolwich-Holborn route could be created. It would assist the 177 on the Greenwich-Woolwich corridor once the 180 is needlessly hacked back, something I know many such as route53 are unhappy about. Furthermore, this route wpuld provide a direct through route from Greenwich to Waterloo and beyond for 188 passengers wishing to go north of the Thames who are put off by the routing via Elephant which slows the route down. I think 6bph would suit this route, the 188 isn't too well used north of Waterloo, and the 180 runs at 6bph already, so this route would replenish the lost capacity between Woolwich and Greenwich. Perhaps some peak extras could be added due to the immense demand between Holborn and Waterloo, especially since the 171 was hacked back. Under this plan, the 188 would be cutback to Waterloo. The main problem with this route is its length. This route would have a lot of congestion to battle with along its line of route making it an operational nightmare. Congestion will inevitably worsen along this route too once CS4 comes along. This route was essentially me fusing two ideas for buses in Greenwich together, however I realise its impractical. Might even be better off doing something like Woolwich to Blackfriars via Tower Bridge, Aldgate, Leadenhall Street, Bank and Queen Victoria Street. There is no bus service that goes from SE London areas to the City district (Bank, St Paul's etc) and not the most simple interchange either. Could see that being quite popular with Bermondsey residents in particular.
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Post by southlondonbus on Sept 29, 2019 12:28:37 GMT
The 47 goes from Bank/Monument to Bermondsey and Surrey Queys and has dropped patronage in recent years so I doublt another city link is needed.
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Post by route53 on Sept 29, 2019 13:32:54 GMT
The 70 used to run from Waterloo to Greenwich hugging the Thames all the way. I wonder if a Woolwich-Holborn route could be created. It would assist the 177 on the Greenwich-Woolwich corridor once the 180 is needlessly hacked back, something I know many such as route53 are unhappy about. Furthermore, this route wpuld provide a direct through route from Greenwich to Waterloo and beyond for 188 passengers wishing to go north of the Thames who are put off by the routing via Elephant which slows the route down. I think 6bph would suit this route, the 188 isn't too well used north of Waterloo, and the 180 runs at 6bph already, so this route would replenish the lost capacity between Woolwich and Greenwich. Perhaps some peak extras could be added due to the immense demand between Holborn and Waterloo, especially since the 171 was hacked back. Under this plan, the 188 would be cutback to Waterloo. The main problem with this route is its length. This route would have a lot of congestion to battle with along its line of route making it an operational nightmare. Congestion will inevitably worsen along this route too once CS4 comes along. This route was essentially me fusing two ideas for buses in Greenwich together, however I realise its impractical. Thanks for the tag rif153 :-) I definitely agree that there should be a route from Woolwich to either Waterloo or the City. This would be similar to the old 177, this may be controversial but why not extend the 1 to Woolwich/Plumstead? The N1 heads down there anyway, it would create a new and useful cross Greenwich route linking Woolwich with Surrey Quays and replace the 180 once that route has been hacked and butchered. The route length would be a problem but I can see a time where longer, radial trunk routes could make a return.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 29, 2019 13:48:48 GMT
I wonder if a Woolwich-Holborn route could be created. It would assist the 177 on the Greenwich-Woolwich corridor once the 180 is needlessly hacked back, something I know many such as route53 are unhappy about. Furthermore, this route wpuld provide a direct through route from Greenwich to Waterloo and beyond for 188 passengers wishing to go north of the Thames who are put off by the routing via Elephant which slows the route down. I think 6bph would suit this route, the 188 isn't too well used north of Waterloo, and the 180 runs at 6bph already, so this route would replenish the lost capacity between Woolwich and Greenwich. Perhaps some peak extras could be added due to the immense demand between Holborn and Waterloo, especially since the 171 was hacked back. Under this plan, the 188 would be cutback to Waterloo. The main problem with this route is its length. This route would have a lot of congestion to battle with along its line of route making it an operational nightmare. Congestion will inevitably worsen along this route too once CS4 comes along. This route was essentially me fusing two ideas for buses in Greenwich together, however I realise its impractical. Thanks for the tag rif153 :-) I definitely agree that there should be a route from Woolwich to either Waterloo or the City. This would be similar to the old 177, this may be controversial but why not extend the 1 to Woolwich/Plumstead? The N1 heads down there anyway, it would create a new and useful cross Greenwich route linking Woolwich with Surrey Quays and replace the 180 once that route has been hacked and butchered. The route length would be a problem but I can see a time where longer, radial trunk routes could make a return. The only way these trunk routes will ever return is if congestion is significantly reduced and given the traffic planners have no desire to do this despite it having a number of benefits to doing so, don’t expect them to return. The handful of trunk routes left have favourable conditions to them but I suspect even they will be shortened at some point. I suggested a similar length routing running from Canada Water to Erith and was advised it could be quite problematic so I suspect a City of London to Woolwich would face the same problem.
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Post by route53 on Sept 29, 2019 14:28:57 GMT
Thanks for the tag rif153 :-) I definitely agree that there should be a route from Woolwich to either Waterloo or the City. This would be similar to the old 177, this may be controversial but why not extend the 1 to Woolwich/Plumstead? The N1 heads down there anyway, it would create a new and useful cross Greenwich route linking Woolwich with Surrey Quays and replace the 180 once that route has been hacked and butchered. The route length would be a problem but I can see a time where longer, radial trunk routes could make a return. The only way these trunk routes will ever return is if congestion is significantly reduced and given the traffic planners have no desire to do this despite it having a number of benefits to doing so, don’t expect them to return. The handful of trunk routes left have favourable conditions to them but I suspect even they will be shortened at some point. I suggested a similar length routing running from Canada Water to Erith and was advised it could be quite problematic so I suspect a City of London to Woolwich would face the same problem. It’s a shame really because trunk routes are needed, I would imagine that a large chunk of Woolwich and Blackheath would be lost without the 53.
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Post by redbus on Oct 1, 2019 15:31:10 GMT
I have a idea is to have 8 merge with the 98 so have one route Willesden to Bow Road I know have gone made but just an idea You do realise that the 8 was originally split into the 8 and 98. I well remember the 8 going to Willesden and being operated by AC.
Traffic congestion on the 98 would mean that re-extending the 8 to Willesden would make it rather unreliable.
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