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Post by vjaska on Jul 22, 2019 18:34:41 GMT
Amazed to see freq increases to the 60, 127, 130, 154, 249, 289, 314, 466. Seems large amount on routes that don't always seem massively busy particulary the 130 and 466 but even the 154 and 249 cope pretty well. Can't help but think when so many routes have seen cuts in freq or altogether that the 60 and 466 need an increase. Purley to Croydon site already getting mroe cacapcity with the DD conversion of the 407. The 60 definitely deserves a PVR/frequency increase. The route supports the 109 and 118 and itself is a busy route. Would be great if the 60 could get to a every 10 minute frequency. The 118 itself requires a frequency increase yet was cut at the beginning of its current contract. Shows how running predominantly through inner London boroughs now generally gives little reward or worse.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 22, 2019 18:36:40 GMT
The 314 was proposed for a increase years ago when the T32 was initially proposed for withdrawal before the larger New Addington changes came about. Looking at the 314 I'm surprised it's only every 15 mins as it's quite an important feeder route for the tram from Hayes and Bromley.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 22, 2019 18:39:14 GMT
Seems the results have been published .... 75,154,403 get reprieved ... the rest curtailed roughly as planned. Divert routes 50 and 197 to stand at Fairfield Halls Divert route 433 to stand in mid-Croydon at either Katherine Street or St. Georges Walk Retain route N250 serving East Croydon, Dingwall Road all evenings Changes to routes 109, 250, 264, 405 and 412 will progress as we originally proposed in the consultation Curtail route 197 to Fairfield Halls Curtail routes 250 (day route) and 264 (day and night services) to West Croydon Bus Station Curtail routes 405 and 412 at Katherine Street Route 109 will stand at Fell Road. There would be no change to first or last stops, live or dead mileage Glad the 75 change was reversed and that the Croydon College link is retained along with the 154 & 403 but very poor that the other changes were not reversed especially the 250 change which just piles extra pressure onto the already extremely busy 109. The 264 change is going to annoy many people as well.
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Post by evergreenadam on Jul 22, 2019 18:48:07 GMT
Amazed to see freq increases to the 60, 127, 130, 154, 249, 289, 314, 466. Seems large amount on routes that don't always seem massively busy particulary the 130 and 466 but even the 154 and 249 cope pretty well. Can't help but think when so many routes have seen cuts in freq or altogether that the 60 and 466 need an increase. Purley to Croydon site already getting mroe cacapcity with the DD conversion of the 407. For all we know these could be evening and Sunday frequency enhancements. The report says that they are subject to cost, so we shall see if they happen or not.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 22, 2019 19:07:31 GMT
True. The 154 could just be an extra school journey. I can't see a 10 mins Monday to Saturday daytime frequency really needed. The Sutton to Morden section can be very quiet in the daytime.
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Post by rj131 on Jul 22, 2019 19:39:11 GMT
The 60 definitely deserves a PVR/frequency increase. The route supports the 109 and 118 and itself is a busy route. Would be great if the 60 could get to a every 10 minute frequency. The 118 itself requires a frequency increase yet was cut at the beginning of its current contract. Shows how running predominantly through inner London boroughs now generally gives little reward or worse. The really weird thing with the 118 is that it’s peak time frequency is *less* than its regular daytime frequency.... what?!? Rode the 60 in the peaks not so long back which itself was very busy as were oncoming 118’s toward Brixton, they were rammed! Maybe the slightly less frequency is to maintain reliability because of extra traffic? I’m not sure on that one.
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Post by rj131 on Jul 22, 2019 20:03:10 GMT
I wonder if this consultation revival now means the Westfield works will finally begin? I really hope so as Whitgift is really starting to look in a sorry state now, especially the Allders Square. My god what’s left open of that shop is so creepy and the surrounding square I don’t think has any shops left in it!
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Post by vjaska on Jul 22, 2019 20:15:01 GMT
The 118 itself requires a frequency increase yet was cut at the beginning of its current contract. Shows how running predominantly through inner London boroughs now generally gives little reward or worse. The really weird thing with the 118 is that it’s peak time frequency is *less* than its regular daytime frequency.... what?!? Rode the 60 in the peaks not so long back which itself was very busy as were oncoming 118’s toward Brixton, they were rammed! Maybe the slightly less frequency is to maintain reliability because of extra traffic? I’m not sure on that one. The 118 has been that way for a number of years now and I've been calling for it to go to every 10 minutes but instead is cut. I can't see reliability being an issue personally but I could be wrong - it does serve Mitcham & Streatham which are buggers to pass through but equally has a few sections that are the complete opposite such as Streatham Vale to Mitcham & Mitcham to Morden. The 60 definitely deserves it, it's just I hate this sort of borough lottery where if your an outer London borough, you get a far higher chance of reward than an inner London one, especially given Lambeth has one of the lowest rates of car ownership and heavily relies on the bus network due to the tube going no further than Brixton leaving a large part of the borough with buses and an unreliable train network to use instead.
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Post by rj131 on Jul 22, 2019 20:37:00 GMT
The really weird thing with the 118 is that it’s peak time frequency is *less* than its regular daytime frequency.... what?!? Rode the 60 in the peaks not so long back which itself was very busy as were oncoming 118’s toward Brixton, they were rammed! Maybe the slightly less frequency is to maintain reliability because of extra traffic? I’m not sure on that one. The 118 has been that way for a number of years now and I've been calling for it to go to every 10 minutes but instead is cut. I can't see reliability being an issue personally but I could be wrong - it does serve Mitcham & Streatham which are buggers to pass through but equally has a few sections that are the complete opposite such as Streatham Vale to Mitcham & Mitcham to Morden. The 60 definitely deserves it, it's just I hate this sort of borough lottery where if your an outer London borough, you get a far higher chance of reward than an inner London one, especially given Lambeth has one of the lowest rates of car ownership and heavily relies on the bus network due to the tube going no further than Brixton leaving a large part of the borough with buses and an unreliable train network to use instead. Brilliant analysis that actually. The 60’s frequency has always confused me, is its 13 minute frequency its proper frequency or is it actually every 12 just on a temporary timetable with longer running times? Londonbusroutes.net doesn’t have the 60 down as having a temporary timetable currently but I find that hard to believe. Re Streatham Vale my god that place is atrocious traffic wise, never seen anything like it. When I was on that rush hour 60 going through there I’d never seen such diabolical driving standards from everyone. Everyone just pulled out of junctions onto the main road whenever they felt with no regard whatsoever of what was coming towards them. My 60 had a very near miss with a car there. Never seen such shocking standards of driving anywhere in London.
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Post by sid on Jul 22, 2019 22:12:18 GMT
Amazed to see freq increases to the 60, 127, 130, 154, 249, 289, 314, 466. Seems large amount on routes that don't always seem massively busy particulary the 130 and 466 but even the 154 and 249 cope pretty well. Can't help but think when so many routes have seen cuts in freq or altogether that the 60 and 466 need an increase. Purley to Croydon site already getting mroe cacapcity with the DD conversion of the 407. For all we know these could be evening and Sunday frequency enhancements. The report says that they are subject to cost, so we shall see if they happen or not. Probably be something daft like the 60 being increased from x13mins to x12mins! If the Westfield development doesn't go ahead (it's still "under review") then I really don't see the need for these changes which will only bring relatively meagre savings. If there is a need to reduce bus movements along Wellesley Road just implement the 264 and 433 change which shouldn't cause too much hardship and reroute the 154 via Reeves Corner thus removing 16bph in each direction which should be enough?
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Post by YY13VKP on Jul 22, 2019 22:54:27 GMT
Didn't someone say the 60 was getting a frequency increase and that is why DW318/20 came over. Could also be why HV280/1 returned to N. Thought we were reliably informed the 466 was getting withdrawn! Had a feeling that the 130 & 466 was just rumours and no more beyond that. I would have been shocked if that went ahead. For a start the 466 in its current form is an extremely busy route and the 130 goes a completely different way to it after Shirley so such a plan would have been unworkable.
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Post by YY13VKP on Jul 22, 2019 23:02:06 GMT
I wonder if this consultation revival now means the Westfield works will finally begin? I really hope so as Whitgift is really starting to look in a sorry state now, especially the Allders Square. My god what’s left open of that shop is so creepy and the surrounding square I don’t think has any shops left in it! All this shuffling of where buses terminate in Croydon points towards that suggestion. As for the Whitgift Centre, I have to agree with you there! It is pretty much derelict there and whenever I've been in there as of late it has been pretty dead and it will keep being that way until Westfield opens. Westfield can't come soon enough and I just hope that construction begins soon. Allders Square has been derelict ever since Allders shut down back in 2009 (I think) I used to go to the Whitgift Centre a lot when I was younger but I hardly do now. I will miss it when it finally closes and gets demolished but it's time has come to go.
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Post by vjaska on Jul 22, 2019 23:48:22 GMT
I wonder if this consultation revival now means the Westfield works will finally begin? I really hope so as Whitgift is really starting to look in a sorry state now, especially the Allders Square. My god what’s left open of that shop is so creepy and the surrounding square I don’t think has any shops left in it! All this shuffling of where buses terminate in Croydon points towards that suggestion. As for the Whitgift Centre, I have to agree with you there! It is pretty much derelict there and whenever I've been in there as of late it has been pretty dead and it will keep being that way until Westfield opens. Westfield can't come soon enough and I just hope that construction begins soon. Allders Square has been derelict ever since Allders shut down back in 2009 (I think) I used to go to the Whitgift Centre a lot when I was younger but I hardly do now. I will miss it when it finally closes and gets demolished but it's time has come to go. Is Allders Square the alley that runs up to George Street?
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Post by ibus246 on Jul 23, 2019 0:05:09 GMT
The 118 has been that way for a number of years now and I've been calling for it to go to every 10 minutes but instead is cut. I can't see reliability being an issue personally but I could be wrong - it does serve Mitcham & Streatham which are buggers to pass through but equally has a few sections that are the complete opposite such as Streatham Vale to Mitcham & Mitcham to Morden. The 60 definitely deserves it, it's just I hate this sort of borough lottery where if your an outer London borough, you get a far higher chance of reward than an inner London one, especially given Lambeth has one of the lowest rates of car ownership and heavily relies on the bus network due to the tube going no further than Brixton leaving a large part of the borough with buses and an unreliable train network to use instead. Brilliant analysis that actually. The 60’s frequency has always confused me, is its 13 minute frequency its proper frequency or is it actually every 12 just on a temporary timetable with longer running times? Londonbusroutes.net doesn’t have the 60 down as having a temporary timetable currently but I find that hard to believe. Re Streatham Vale my god that place is atrocious traffic wise, never seen anything like it. When I was on that rush hour 60 going through there I’d never seen such diabolical driving standards from everyone. Everyone just pulled out of junctions onto the main road whenever they felt with no regard whatsoever of what was coming towards them. My 60 had a very near miss with a car there. Never seen such shocking standards of driving anywhere in London. Sounds like Norbury high street!
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Post by sid on Jul 23, 2019 4:55:37 GMT
Had a feeling that the 130 & 466 was just rumours and no more beyond that. I would have been shocked if that went ahead. For a start the 466 in its current form is an extremely busy route and the 130 goes a completely different way to it after Shirley so such a plan would have been unworkable. The Shirley Hills section is ridiculously over bussed, that level of service was necessary pre Tramlink but not any more.
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