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Post by sid on Jul 23, 2019 5:13:11 GMT
I wonder if this consultation revival now means the Westfield works will finally begin? I really hope so as Whitgift is really starting to look in a sorry state now, especially the Allders Square. My god what’s left open of that shop is so creepy and the surrounding square I don’t think has any shops left in it! All this shuffling of where buses terminate in Croydon points towards that suggestion. As for the Whitgift Centre, I have to agree with you there! It is pretty much derelict there and whenever I've been in there as of late it has been pretty dead and it will keep being that way until Westfield opens. Westfield can't come soon enough and I just hope that construction begins soon. Allders Square has been derelict ever since Allders shut down back in 2009 (I think) I used to go to the Whitgift Centre a lot when I was younger but I hardly do now. I will miss it when it finally closes and gets demolished but it's time has come to go. I think it was 2012 Allders closed although it had been on the cards for sometime. If the Westfield development doesn't happen the future of Croydon town centre looks pretty bleak.
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Post by Max B on Jul 23, 2019 9:11:30 GMT
All this shuffling of where buses terminate in Croydon points towards that suggestion. As for the Whitgift Centre, I have to agree with you there! It is pretty much derelict there and whenever I've been in there as of late it has been pretty dead and it will keep being that way until Westfield opens. Westfield can't come soon enough and I just hope that construction begins soon. Allders Square has been derelict ever since Allders shut down back in 2009 (I think) I used to go to the Whitgift Centre a lot when I was younger but I hardly do now. I will miss it when it finally closes and gets demolished but it's time has come to go. I think it was 2012 Allders closed although it had been on the cards for sometime. If the Westfield development doesn't happen the future of Croydon town centre looks pretty bleak. It went into administration in 2012, and ceased trading in January 2013.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 14:30:20 GMT
I think it was 2012 Allders closed although it had been on the cards for sometime. If the Westfield development doesn't happen the future of Croydon town centre looks pretty bleak. It went into administration in 2012, and ceased trading in January 2013. Now it’s the Croydon Outlet Village, basically a collection of bargain non-brands. It’s a far cry from the Allders I remember
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Post by sid on Jul 23, 2019 17:27:16 GMT
It went into administration in 2012, and ceased trading in January 2013. Now it’s the Croydon Outlet Village, basically a collection of bargain non-brands. It’s a far cry from the Allders I remember Basically a load of old tat which really sums up the decline of Croydon town centre over the last few years. In the halcyon days there was not only Allders but Grants and Kennards. Even if the Westfield development does go ahead it's going to be years before it comes to fruition. I think Boxpark is the busiest place in town nowadays. Getting back to buses at least the 50 didn't get curtailed at West Croydon which would have left it without a common stop with the 468.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 23, 2019 20:33:49 GMT
Now it’s the Croydon Outlet Village, basically a collection of bargain non-brands. It’s a far cry from the Allders I remember Basically a load of old tat which really sums up the decline of Croydon town centre over the last few years. In the halcyon days there was not only Allders but Grants and Kennards. Even if the Westfield development does go ahead it's going to be years before it comes to fruition. I think Boxpark is the busiest place in town nowadays. Getting back to buses at least the 50 didn't get curtailed at West Croydon which would have left it without a common stop with the 468. Looking from afar, but with a knowledge and experience of Croydon going back some decades, I find it very sad to see the deterioration of Croydon town centre, a lot of it to do with greedy landowners/developers allied to (shall we say) some morally dubious people on Croydon Council, both officers and members. I can remember when the open air Whitgift Centre was not only thriving, but a genuinely pleasant shopping experience with variety, good cafes and restaurants/bars, etc. The decision to allow the building of the Centrale shopping centre in North End was a disgrace, and, though I'm extremely happy it's never taken off, it drags Croydon down with it. Tramlink is a great feature, but its construction undoubtedly brought George, and to a lesser extent Surrey, Street to its knees, from which position it's never re-asserted itself. The area to the south of the Tramlink westbound line was even worse affected, effectively terminally. Allders I won't say anything about, other than Croydon Allders was always head and shoulders above any other branches, which were mere shadows of it. Its demise says a lot about the people effectively running (or, more accurately, ruining) Croydon over the years, Rant over. On the actual changes, I'm glad to see that TfL have rowed back on many, which were essentially pennypinching. The 154 was particularly stupid.
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Post by danorak on Jul 23, 2019 21:08:52 GMT
Basically a load of old tat which really sums up the decline of Croydon town centre over the last few years. In the halcyon days there was not only Allders but Grants and Kennards. Even if the Westfield development does go ahead it's going to be years before it comes to fruition. I think Boxpark is the busiest place in town nowadays. Getting back to buses at least the 50 didn't get curtailed at West Croydon which would have left it without a common stop with the 468. Looking from afar, but with a knowledge and experience of Croydon going back some decades, I find it very sad to see the deterioration of Croydon town centre, a lot of it to do with greedy landowners/developers allied to (shall we say) some morally dubious people on Croydon Council, both officers and members. I can remember when the open air Whitgift Centre was not only thriving, but a genuinely pleasant shopping experience with variety, good cafes and restaurants/bars, etc. The decision to allow the building of the Centrale shopping centre in North End was a disgrace, and, though I'm extremely happy it's never taken off, it drags Croydon down with it. Tramlink is a great feature, but its construction undoubtedly brought George, and to a lesser extent Surrey, Street to its knees, from which position it's never re-asserted itself. The area to the south of the Tramlink westbound line was even worse affected, effectively terminally. Allders I won't say anything about, other than Croydon Allders was always head and shoulders above any other branches, which were mere shadows of it. Its demise says a lot about the people effectively running (or, more accurately, ruining) Croydon over the years, Rant over. On the actual changes, I'm glad to see that TfL have rowed back on many, which were essentially pennypinching. The 154 was particularly stupid. They should never have closed Beanos... Croydon has some big problems. The outlet place reminds me of the sort of grim department store that you used to hear about in the USSR. The (vast amounts of) office space is not fit for modern purposes despite the location being pretty good. The Whitgift is being left to rot, heaven knows if Westfield will ever get built. As a fellow Croydon shopper (until they hacked the 54) it saddens me.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 23, 2019 21:18:27 GMT
Looking from afar, but with a knowledge and experience of Croydon going back some decades, I find it very sad to see the deterioration of Croydon town centre, a lot of it to do with greedy landowners/developers allied to (shall we say) some morally dubious people on Croydon Council, both officers and members. I can remember when the open air Whitgift Centre was not only thriving, but a genuinely pleasant shopping experience with variety, good cafes and restaurants/bars, etc. The decision to allow the building of the Centrale shopping centre in North End was a disgrace, and, though I'm extremely happy it's never taken off, it drags Croydon down with it. Tramlink is a great feature, but its construction undoubtedly brought George, and to a lesser extent Surrey, Street to its knees, from which position it's never re-asserted itself. The area to the south of the Tramlink westbound line was even worse affected, effectively terminally. Allders I won't say anything about, other than Croydon Allders was always head and shoulders above any other branches, which were mere shadows of it. Its demise says a lot about the people effectively running (or, more accurately, ruining) Croydon over the years, Rant over. On the actual changes, I'm glad to see that TfL have rowed back on many, which were essentially pennypinching. The 154 was particularly stupid. They should never have closed Beanos... Croydon has some big problems. The outlet place reminds me of the sort of grim department store that you used to hear about in the USSR. The (vast amounts of) office space is not fit for modern purposes despite the location being pretty good. The Whitgift is being left to rot, heaven knows if Westfield will ever get built. As a fellow Croydon shopper (until they hacked the 54) it saddens me. Ah, Beanos - now you're talking. Grim department stores in the USSR I've a little experience of, specifically Moskva GUM, fot the simple reason that you had to purchase roubles and weren't allowed to exchange them back, so you were 'encouraged' rather enthusiastically to purchase something/anything. As I had no use for size 58DD pink bras, I was forced to buy a rather shoddy set of spanners to throw into the back of my cupboard on return home!
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Post by sid on Jul 23, 2019 21:58:31 GMT
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 23, 2019 22:24:08 GMT
The changes are scheduled for November
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Post by vjaska on Jul 23, 2019 23:51:40 GMT
Amazed to see freq increases to the 60, 127, 130, 154, 249, 289, 314, 466. Seems large amount on routes that don't always seem massively busy particulary the 130 and 466 but even the 154 and 249 cope pretty well. Can't help but think when so many routes have seen cuts in freq or altogether that the 60 and 466 need an increase. Purley to Croydon site already getting mroe cacapcity with the DD conversion of the 407. The 249 has been a busy route for years especially during the peaks and school hours and I welcome it receiving a frequency increase.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jul 28, 2019 12:31:48 GMT
It went into administration in 2012, and ceased trading in January 2013. Now it’s the Croydon Outlet Village, basically a collection of bargain non-brands. It’s a far cry from the Allders I remember The Village Outlet has now closed after Croydon Council got a CPO for the site. Incidentally is there enough capacity at the Fairfield Halls stand for the 50, 75 and 197?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2019 14:06:44 GMT
Now it’s the Croydon Outlet Village, basically a collection of bargain non-brands. It’s a far cry from the Allders I remember The Village Outlet has now closed after Croydon Council got a CPO for the site. Incidentally is there enough capacity at the Fairfield Halls stand for the 50, 75 and 197? The stand at Fairfield Halls should have enough room especially as the high frequency 250 won't be standing there anymore. Isn't the 433 standing with them or is it receiving it's own stand?
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 28, 2019 18:13:48 GMT
The 433 said it was now going to stand at Croydon Town Centre which I guess is where they factored in the 154 and 403 which are now remaining at West Croydon so the 50/75/197 should fit at Fairfield Halls.
The 250 and 264 will take the place at West Croydon used by the 405/412/433. The higher freq of the 250 and 264 probably means there wont be space to fit the X26 into the bus station.
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Post by londonbusboy on Jul 28, 2019 21:09:36 GMT
thought the 75 was going to be curtailed to West Croydon?
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Post by vjaska on Jul 28, 2019 21:14:01 GMT
The 433 said it was now going to stand at Croydon Town Centre which I guess is where they factored in the 154 and 403 which are now remaining at West Croydon so the 50/75/197 should fit at Fairfield Halls. The 250 and 264 will take the place at West Croydon used by the 405/412/433. The higher freq of the 250 and 264 probably means there wont be space to fit the X26 into the bus station. Croydon Town Centre isn't a particular stand though - the blind Croydon Town Centre is used for a number of terminating points in Croydon. The 50, 75 & 197 will definitely fit at Fairfield Halls - currently, the 75, 197 & 250 stand there and the 250 has a higher frequency than the 50. Poor 109, thats all I can say - it's usually packed by the 2nd stop on Park Street and thats with the 50 & 250's assistance. Same with the 264 as well - another nail in the coffin for shopping at Croydon and another reason for people to use more friendlier shopping places like Bromley.
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