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Post by arrivaarriva on Aug 29, 2019 18:46:25 GMT
The 12 and 88 covered an identical stretch of route between Shepherd's Bush Green and Parliament Square via Notting Hill Gate, Marble Arch, Oxford Circus, Regent Street and Whitehall. Can anyone think of any other pairs of routes following each other for such a long distance. I've been watching videos of 1950's London and in one video, I counted 17 RT's in a single shot of Oxford Street at the Baker Street end.
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Post by John tuthill on Aug 29, 2019 19:50:07 GMT
The 12 and 88 covered an identical stretch of route between Shepherd's Bush Green and Parliament Square via Notting Hill Gate, Marble Arch, Oxford Circus, Regent Street and Whitehall. Can anyone think of any other pairs of routes following each other for such a long distance. I've been watching videos of 1950's London and in one video, I counted 17 RT's in a single shot of Oxford Street at the Baker Street end. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest the 2 & 2A. Parallel from Golders Green as far as Atlantic Road in Brixton, where the 2 turned off.
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Post by M1104 on Aug 29, 2019 20:21:35 GMT
In the 90s the 36 and 36B ran together between Victoria and the Catford gyratory and I believe they may have been a short period when the 36B was extended to run with the 36 to Paddington¹ during certain times of the day, possibly weekday peak times.
Incidentally the 12 and 88 continued running together at length until around the 1980s (not quite sure if it continued on into the early 90s).
¹ - thus running together from Paddington to the Catford gyratory
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 29, 2019 20:50:27 GMT
It continued till 1990 when the 94 was created. The 12 was pulled back to NHG in 1994. Not sure what the sections for the 12 were back then.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 29, 2019 20:57:11 GMT
When I think of the 12's successor on Bayswater Road as the 148, and the 88's successor the 94, I do always think its interesting that back in 2003 TfL decided not to send the 148 down Oxford Street, an early indication they weren't eager to have high bus flows on that road. I do like the 148's routing, it offers useful new links, and avoids it paralleling the 94, with the only lost connection to Whitehall.
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Post by danorak on Aug 29, 2019 21:09:40 GMT
It continued till 1990 when the 94 was created. The 12 was pulled back to NHG in 1994. Not sure what the sections for the 12 were back then. According to the 1990 LOTS review, there was a plan in 1988 to renumber the western ends of the 88 and 12 as 10 and 10A.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 29, 2019 21:28:51 GMT
The 250 has followed the 109 along the majority of its route for roughly 30 years uninterrupted and should carry on doing so providing no one decides to do anything stupid.
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Post by redexpress on Aug 29, 2019 21:45:18 GMT
W2 was an odd one in that it covered the entire 329 route when the latter was introduced in 1992.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 30, 2019 5:44:47 GMT
When I think of the 12's successor on Bayswater Road as the 148, and the 88's successor the 94, I do always think its interesting that back in 2003 TfL decided not to send the 148 down Oxford Street, an early indication they weren't eager to have high bus flows on that road. I do like the 148's routing, it offers useful new links, and avoids it paralleling the 94, with the only lost connection to Whitehall. I would argue the 12s successor along Bayswater Road was the 390 till it was deemed unnecessary. The 390 was quite a useful change as it created NHG links to Tottenham Court Road and Euston/Kings X as opposed to the 12 and 94 simply paralleling each other between NHG and Piccadilly Circus. I guess the Bayswater Road had always had 2 routes (12/88) so the 94/148 and either 12 or 390 was not needed.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 30, 2019 5:49:57 GMT
When I think of the 12's successor on Bayswater Road as the 148, and the 88's successor the 94, I do always think its interesting that back in 2003 TfL decided not to send the 148 down Oxford Street, an early indication they weren't eager to have high bus flows on that road. I do like the 148's routing, it offers useful new links, and avoids it paralleling the 94, with the only lost connection to Whitehall. I would argue the 12s successor along Bayswater Road was the 390 till it was deemed unnecessary. The 390 was quite a useful change as it created NHG links to Tottenham Court Road and Euston/Kings X as opposed to the 12 and 94 simply paralleling each other between NHG and Piccadilly Circus. I guess the Bayswater Road had always had 2 routes (12/88) so the 94/148 and either 12 or 390 was not needed. The point I was trying to make is that the mitigation for the 12's cutback to Oxo is the 148 which maintains the links to Westminster, Elephant, and Camberwell. There is enough spare capacity on Bayswater Road to cope without the 390. The issue is that by far the busier route on that stretch, the 94, has had to pick up the slack up from the 390 cut, when the 148 is less busy on that stretch.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 30, 2019 7:14:43 GMT
And now there is the 274 DD to Lancaster Gate to help. Had the 12 survived still running from NHG to Peckham then it would probably be facing the axe due to Oxford Street reductions with the 148 being boosted and the Dulwich to Oxo section being boosted.
I wonder if in 2004 TFL considered simply renumbering one of the sections like what happened with the 36, 207, 253.
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 30, 2019 10:22:11 GMT
So let's say the new 10 would have run from Trafalgar Square to Acton Green and the 10A from Oxford Circus to East Acton as I'm sure the 12 had a a self contained section from Oxo to East Acton at the time.
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Post by M1104 on Aug 30, 2019 11:24:28 GMT
So let's say the new 10 would have run from Trafalgar Square to Acton Green and the 10A from Oxford Circus to East Acton as I'm sure the 12 had a a self contained section from Oxo to East Acton at the time. It did indeed have a self-contained section at the time as Shepherds Bush was then doing part of the 12 with their Metros also blinded for the route just in case.
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Post by John tuthill on Aug 30, 2019 20:34:54 GMT
Gentlemen, are we veering away from the original question?
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Post by M1104 on Aug 30, 2019 20:48:06 GMT
Although not quite as long as the 12/88 nor the 2/2A the 80 and 93 ran together from Putney Bridge Station to Morden during the 80s. There were also the 59 and 109 that ran together between Croydon and Kennington Park, this being before the 59 was redefined to what it is now.
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