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Post by route53 on May 10, 2020 15:11:44 GMT
Is it possible to have had Caterham service via Sydenham absorbed into Thameslink? Rather than have the Rainham service? Surely it wouldn’t have affected Windmill Junction? I think the Rainham service is fine as it is as far as Dartford or Gravesend, just too slow all the way to Rainham. The Rainham service has a number of options 1: Speed up the service, most of the stations called are quiet country or suburban stations which lets be honest don’t need the amount of services calling there. 2: To speed up the service would mean that only Greenwich gets 6tph while busy Deptford gets 4tph and I’m certain the middle class crowd at Maze Hill & Westcombe Park would object to a 2tph cuts at those stations even though Blackheath isn’t far off and has far superior connections 3: Could divert the service to run go Blackheath/Lewisham but then this would mean no more Charing Cross services from the Woolwich line, and people will definitely object to that, seeing as CX services on the Woolwich line are usually the busiest and most popular service off peak 4: Only solution is to divert the Rainham service via Sidcup, restore SE services to Gillingham via Woolwich giving Medway 4tph to Dartford, I think this is the best case scenario as it keeps everyone happy.
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Post by YY13VKP on May 10, 2020 15:34:38 GMT
Thameslink could perhaps run to Coulsdon Town & Tattenham Corner too? Could give a more uniform route with more services going via East Croydon. It would mean finding extra paths in the peaks which don't exist ... only reason they currently split. So yes it is directly related to Windmill Bridge junction as that is currently the bottleneck, and don't believe that service pattern is a priority once the currently unfunded project ever works its way through to completion. The Class 707's would have been ideal if Thameslink wished to take over the Caterham/Tattenham Corner services however these are now going to Southeastern. I too would have liked to have seen a Thameslink service on my local line however the infrastructure can't currently support it like you said, especially the congestion around Windmill Bridge Junction. I do see the potential to have some peak TL services to Caterham and Tattenham Corner at some point in the future though. The original plan was to have a Welwyn Garden City to Caterham service and I believe the proposed Tattenham Corner service would have started at either Cambridge/Cambridge North or Luton. Perhaps with the additional platform opening at Stevenage soon there could also be potential to start these services from there should they be introduced in the future. A Thameslink service between the north and Guildford via Cobham would have been a great shout too, although a flyover would be required between Raynes Park and Wimbledon so that London bound trains can cross over from the SWML to the Thameslink platform at Wimbledon. If the Sutton loop closes and becomes part of the tram network, who knows maybe there could be potential for this.
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Post by SILENCED on May 10, 2020 15:55:22 GMT
It would mean finding extra paths in the peaks which don't exist ... only reason they currently split. So yes it is directly related to Windmill Bridge junction as that is currently the bottleneck, and don't believe that service pattern is a priority once the currently unfunded project ever works its way through to completion. Windmill Junction upgrade is part of the East Croydon upgrade, so it will be completed eventually, at some point in this decade. The long term goal is to increase the amount of services on the BML which includes more Thameslink services. It is just plans at the moment .... the project has not been funded ... and there are many NR projects looking for their chunk of money. Norwood Junction should happen before that, but despite the rosy press release saying how everyone was in favour of the plans, it too has no money allocated.
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Post by greenboy on May 10, 2020 16:54:47 GMT
I think the Rainham service is fine as it is as far as Dartford or Gravesend, just too slow all the way to Rainham. The Rainham service has a number of options 1: Speed up the service, most of the stations called are quiet country or suburban stations which lets be honest don’t need the amount of services calling there. 2: To speed up the service would mean that only Greenwich gets 6tph while busy Deptford gets 4tph and I’m certain the middle class crowd at Maze Hill & Westcombe Park would object to a 2tph cuts at those stations even though Blackheath isn’t far off and has far superior connections 3: Could divert the service to run go Blackheath/Lewisham but then this would mean no more Charing Cross services from the Woolwich line, and people will definitely object to that, seeing as CX services on the Woolwich line are usually the busiest and most popular service off peak 4: Only solution is to divert the Rainham service via Sidcup, restore SE services to Gillingham via Woolwich giving Medway 4tph to Dartford, I think this is the best case scenario as it keeps everyone happy. The cross London tube type service on the Greenwich line is quite useful and in the long term hopefully Crossrail will be extended to Rainham.
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2020 17:31:02 GMT
The Rainham service has a number of options 1: Speed up the service, most of the stations called are quiet country or suburban stations which lets be honest don’t need the amount of services calling there. 2: To speed up the service would mean that only Greenwich gets 6tph while busy Deptford gets 4tph and I’m certain the middle class crowd at Maze Hill & Westcombe Park would object to a 2tph cuts at those stations even though Blackheath isn’t far off and has far superior connections 3: Could divert the service to run go Blackheath/Lewisham but then this would mean no more Charing Cross services from the Woolwich line, and people will definitely object to that, seeing as CX services on the Woolwich line are usually the busiest and most popular service off peak 4: Only solution is to divert the Rainham service via Sidcup, restore SE services to Gillingham via Woolwich giving Medway 4tph to Dartford, I think this is the best case scenario as it keeps everyone happy. The cross London tube type service on the Greenwich line is quite useful and in the long term hopefully Crossrail will be extended to Rainham. CrossRail shouldn’t go far beyond Ebbsfleet/Gravesend in truth, i know it goes out to Reading but I don’t want TfL to take over the whole South East. As for Thameslink, that’s fine to have a tube style service for Greenwich but it’s not good for beyond Gravesend, so maybe it can terminate at Plumstead.
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Post by greenboy on May 10, 2020 17:57:27 GMT
The cross London tube type service on the Greenwich line is quite useful and in the long term hopefully Crossrail will be extended to Rainham. CrossRail shouldn’t go far beyond Ebbsfleet/Gravesend in truth, i know it goes out to Reading but I don’t want TfL to take over the whole South East. As for Thameslink, that’s fine to have a tube style service for Greenwich but it’s not good for beyond Gravesend, so maybe it can terminate at Plumstead. I think Crossrail would provide a better service to Rainham than Thameslink does now.
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Post by rif153 on May 10, 2020 18:42:42 GMT
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Post by route53 on May 10, 2020 21:12:54 GMT
CrossRail shouldn’t go far beyond Ebbsfleet/Gravesend in truth, i know it goes out to Reading but I don’t want TfL to take over the whole South East. As for Thameslink, that’s fine to have a tube style service for Greenwich but it’s not good for beyond Gravesend, so maybe it can terminate at Plumstead. I think Crossrail would provide a better service to Rainham than Thameslink does now. How would it? It would still be a long all stops/semi stopping service much slower than the old semi fasts, also this incarnation of CrossRail has been built as an over glorified tube line, with no toilets on trains, longitudinal tube style seating barring a few seats
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Post by greenboy on May 10, 2020 21:23:55 GMT
I think Crossrail would provide a better service to Rainham than Thameslink does now. How would it? It would still be a long all stops/semi stopping service much slower than the old semi fasts, also this incarnation of CrossRail has been built as an over glorified tube line, with no toilets on trains, longitudinal tube style seating barring a few seats It would provide a direct link to Canary Wharf from Medway Towns and a much quicker journey into Central London than Thameslink currently offers.
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Post by route53 on May 11, 2020 9:46:57 GMT
How would it? It would still be a long all stops/semi stopping service much slower than the old semi fasts, also this incarnation of CrossRail has been built as an over glorified tube line, with no toilets on trains, longitudinal tube style seating barring a few seats It would provide a direct link to Canary Wharf from Medway Towns and a much quicker journey into Central London than Thameslink currently offers. That maybe but it’s still too far out and Medway people can eventually change at Gravesend for Canary Wharf but won’t people use HS1 to reach the Docklands anyway, via a change at Stratford International, It’s much quicker than a potential CrossRail service Where will TfL look to extend next? Maidstone? Dover? Brighton? I’m not entirely against Thameslink it just needs to be sped up, it’s unreasonable to have outer suburban service slowed down to all stops service.
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Post by greenboy on May 11, 2020 9:54:23 GMT
It would provide a direct link to Canary Wharf from Medway Towns and a much quicker journey into Central London than Thameslink currently offers. That maybe but it’s still too far out and Medway people can eventually change at Gravesend for Canary Wharf but won’t people use HS1 to reach the Docklands anyway, via a change at Stratford International, It’s much quicker than a potential CrossRail service Where will TfL look to extend next? Maidstone? Dover? Brighton? I’m not entirely against Thameslink it just needs to be sped up, it’s unreasonable to havei outer suburban service slowed down to all stops service. Maidstone West possibly but clearly not the south coast.
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Post by route53 on May 11, 2020 11:37:50 GMT
That maybe but it’s still too far out and Medway people can eventually change at Gravesend for Canary Wharf but won’t people use HS1 to reach the Docklands anyway, via a change at Stratford International, It’s much quicker than a potential CrossRail service Where will TfL look to extend next? Maidstone? Dover? Brighton? I’m not entirely against Thameslink it just needs to be sped up, it’s unreasonable to havei outer suburban service slowed down to all stops service. Maidstone West possibly but clearly not the south coast. Definitely not Maidstone West, it’s too far out.
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Post by greenboy on May 11, 2020 11:52:20 GMT
Maidstone West possibly but clearly not the south coast. Definitely not Maidstone West, it’s too far out. It's about the same distance as Reading and Rainham.
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Post by route53 on May 11, 2020 13:11:07 GMT
Definitely not Maidstone West, it’s too far out. It's about the same distance as Reading and Rainham. But does everything TfL have to serve every town beyond London? It should stick to London only barring a few exceptions, like Reading, Gravesend, etc This is where Thameslink has it right, it’s not TfL so it can go beyond the reaches of London, Reading as a CrossRail destination is a fluke, it was only a last minute add on, but using Reading being a same radius as Maidstone and Medway isn’t a justification, TfL should stick to London and a couple of outlasting towns outside zone 6 at most, but not different entities like Maidstone or Medway, because of it gets extended out there then sooner or later Thameslink will become a TfL route and that goes to Cambridge, Bedford, Brighton, Littlehampton etc etc. CrossRail doesn’t have to serve everywhere, had it maintained Network South East plans then I would advocate for it to run from Banbury to Ramsgate! But having TfL land grab the whole South East will make those outplaying towns and cities lose their identities eventually.
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Post by Dillon95 on May 14, 2020 18:25:21 GMT
I personaly think TFL services should only go as far out of Greater Lomdon as the M25 orbital towns.
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