Tfl Go: travel app is outperformed by Google Maps

[capitalomnibus]

Tfl Go: London travel app is outperformed by Google Maps
The official London travel app, TfL Go, is outperformed by Google Maps when providing data about how busy transport services are, a review has found.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57089129

[lonmark]

May 13, 2021 9:47:30 GMT capitalomnibus said:

Tfl Go: London travel app is outperformed by Google Maps
The official London travel app, TfL Go, is outperformed by Google Maps when providing data about how busy transport services are, a review has found.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-57089129

I'm with Android and I using the TfL Go App. Well it is rubbish and not make sense at all. I don't understand this app at all.
I'm better off with other bus countdown app or using Google map as well.

[Busboy105]

Is that surprising considering how big Google are?

[​galwhv69]

May 17, 2021 21:04:48 GMT Busboy105 said:

Is that surprising considering how big Google are?

What I find surprising is how a 3rd party app provides better info that the app TfL themselves developed

[Eastlondoner62]

May 18, 2021 6:22:27 GMT ​galwhv69 said:

May 17, 2021 21:04:48 GMT Busboy105 said:

Is that surprising considering how big Google are?

What I find surprising is how a 3rd party app provides better info that the app TfL themselves developed

Well we need to view it differently as to what information each party has available. 

Google has every single Android phone pumping it data, these phones are the most populous in the country so even if iPhone and non smartphone phone users are taken out of the equation the amount of lost data is peanuts. The speed at which someone walks, the speed at which someone travels or the speed at which someone cycles pumps Google this information. The information they have available from the Android devices is second to none, nobody ever can compete with it. My phone at the moment can effectively track my every move, it knows where I go and at what time and even pings me if there's more traffic and then gives me alternative suggestions for travel. 

The Google privacy policy is also a bit different to what TfL would usually have to go through, Google Maps on an Android phone will usually be pre-installed and the privacy policy is hidden deep in the settings. You'd really need to go digging in there to find it, and even then it can still anonymously send information back to Google regardless as that's a policy of using the app. TfL Go being a third party app will need to fit into the rules of the Android marketplace, this includes warning you before you install it, then once you install it and open it you will be presented with an option to give it your data. When the warning is flashed to someone specifically they are usually more likely to pick no. All these factors of not every phone having the app, TfL having a harder time to harvest data and the prevalence of Google Maps makes TfL Go a very hard sell, even if TfL pump in their all. 

Not to mention while Android phones are the most numerous, iPhones still very much have a very sizeable portion of the market. While arguably inferior phones to some of the top Android models, Apple's privacy policy is the most reliable and secure one out there you can get. They still play the trick of what Google do which is hiding permissions for their native apps deep in the settings to a point it's hard to find them, and due to all the encryption Apple use on their own products most people don't usually mind sharing this information. However when a third party app is involved, when you first use the app you get a protruding message telling you all the information the third party app is harvesting from you. At this stage half the people are likely to refuse permissions on the TfL Go app which would allow TfL to track passengers to provide other passengers real time information. 

Due to this reason it's unfair to say TfL are falling behind when Google and Apple who are the two top dogs in technology are almost in direct competition with TfL. Apple Maps and Google Maps are both far better offerings than what TfL have, and while Apple Maps isn't there public transport wise, should they opt to dive in they'll be able to eat TFL Go for dinner just like how Google Maps have already done. 

[​galwhv69]

May 18, 2021 10:35:42 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

May 18, 2021 6:22:27 GMT ​galwhv69 said:

What I find surprising is how a 3rd party app provides better info that the app TfL themselves developed

Well we need to view it differently as to what information each party has available. 

Google has every single Android phone pumping it data, these phones are the most populous in the country so even if iPhone and non smartphone phone users are taken out of the equation the amount of lost data is peanuts. The speed at which someone walks, the speed at which someone travels or the speed at which someone cycles pumps Google this information. The information they have available from the Android devices is second to none, nobody ever can compete with it. My phone at the moment can effectively track my every move, it knows where I go and at what time and even pings me if there's more traffic and then gives me alternative suggestions for travel. 

The Google privacy policy is also a bit different to what TfL would usually have to go through, Google Maps on an Android phone will usually be pre-installed and the privacy policy is hidden deep in the settings. You'd really need to go digging in there to find it, and even then it can still anonymously send information back to Google regardless as that's a policy of using the app. TfL Go being a third party app will need to fit into the rules of the Android marketplace, this includes warning you before you install it, then once you install it and open it you will be presented with an option to give it your data. When the warning is flashed to someone specifically they are usually more likely to pick no. All these factors of not every phone having the app, TfL having a harder time to harvest data and the prevalence of Google Maps makes TfL Go a very hard sell, even if TfL pump in their all. 

Not to mention while Android phones are the most numerous, iPhones still very much have a very sizeable portion of the market. While arguably inferior phones to some of the top Android models, Apple's privacy policy is the most reliable and secure one out there you can get. They still play the trick of what Google do which is hiding permissions for their native apps deep in the settings to a point it's hard to find them, and due to all the encryption Apple use on their own products most people don't usually mind sharing this information. However when a third party app is involved, when you first use the app you get a protruding message telling you all the information the third party app is harvesting from you. At this stage half the people are likely to refuse permissions on the TfL Go app which would allow TfL to track passengers to provide other passengers real time information. 

Due to this reason it's unfair to say TfL are falling behind when Google and Apple who are the two top dogs in technology are almost in direct competition with TfL. Apple Maps and Google Maps are both far better offerings than what TfL have, and while Apple Maps isn't there public transport wise, should they opt to dive in they'll be able to eat TFL Go for dinner just like how Google Maps have already done. 

You raise a very good point. On the other hand, TfL have traffic cameras, oyster data and live vehicle tracking

[Eastlondoner62]

May 18, 2021 11:20:09 GMT ​galwhv69 said:

May 18, 2021 10:35:42 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

Well we need to view it differently as to what information each party has available. 

Google has every single Android phone pumping it data, these phones are the most populous in the country so even if iPhone and non smartphone phone users are taken out of the equation the amount of lost data is peanuts. The speed at which someone walks, the speed at which someone travels or the speed at which someone cycles pumps Google this information. The information they have available from the Android devices is second to none, nobody ever can compete with it. My phone at the moment can effectively track my every move, it knows where I go and at what time and even pings me if there's more traffic and then gives me alternative suggestions for travel. 

The Google privacy policy is also a bit different to what TfL would usually have to go through, Google Maps on an Android phone will usually be pre-installed and the privacy policy is hidden deep in the settings. You'd really need to go digging in there to find it, and even then it can still anonymously send information back to Google regardless as that's a policy of using the app. TfL Go being a third party app will need to fit into the rules of the Android marketplace, this includes warning you before you install it, then once you install it and open it you will be presented with an option to give it your data. When the warning is flashed to someone specifically they are usually more likely to pick no. All these factors of not every phone having the app, TfL having a harder time to harvest data and the prevalence of Google Maps makes TfL Go a very hard sell, even if TfL pump in their all. 

Not to mention while Android phones are the most numerous, iPhones still very much have a very sizeable portion of the market. While arguably inferior phones to some of the top Android models, Apple's privacy policy is the most reliable and secure one out there you can get. They still play the trick of what Google do which is hiding permissions for their native apps deep in the settings to a point it's hard to find them, and due to all the encryption Apple use on their own products most people don't usually mind sharing this information. However when a third party app is involved, when you first use the app you get a protruding message telling you all the information the third party app is harvesting from you. At this stage half the people are likely to refuse permissions on the TfL Go app which would allow TfL to track passengers to provide other passengers real time information. 

Due to this reason it's unfair to say TfL are falling behind when Google and Apple who are the two top dogs in technology are almost in direct competition with TfL. Apple Maps and Google Maps are both far better offerings than what TfL have, and while Apple Maps isn't there public transport wise, should they opt to dive in they'll be able to eat TFL Go for dinner just like how Google Maps have already done. 

You raise a very good point. On the other hand, TfL have traffic cameras, oyster data and live vehicle tracking

The issue here is that these can't ever be live feeds like what Google uses. The traffic cameras would probably need an algorithm applied so a computer can detect traffic levels by staring at a fairly low resolution image out of a CCTV camera, oyster data cannot be provided live as you only know the start and end point of someone's journey and you have no way of knowing which route these people are taking until the tap out on the other end is received, by which point the information is useless for an app. You could identify trends and apply these, although this will never be as good as a live feed.

Live vehicle tracking can be used, but once again you'd need to apply an algorithm to analyse how long buses are standing at each stop and comparing these to the timetable and headway to see whether there are any notable problem stops where buses keep losing time. 

[twobellstogo]

One of the first things I think I’d look at, if I were involved in TfL, would be to cease running the separate Oyster app and combine that with TfL Go, and I’d have a lot more maps on the site, rail and bus, even if they aren’t interactive.

[Frenzie]

Anyone know of a decent app that will tell me the number plate of every bus at a bus stop? This would be a great addition to TfL Go imo. Bus London used to have this feature but got rid of it.

[vjaska]

May 19, 2021 15:50:03 GMT Frenzie said:

Anyone know of a decent app that will tell me the number plate of every bus at a bus stop? This would be a great addition to TfL Go imo. Bus London used to have this feature but got rid of it.

On IOS, I recommend Bus Times or the excellent LondonBusPal which not only shows regs of each bus but also shows fleet number and a pic of that particular bus as well as information such as engine, chassis, age, etc.

[​galwhv69]

May 19, 2021 15:50:03 GMT Frenzie said:

Anyone know of a decent app that will tell me the number plate of every bus at a bus stop? This would be a great addition to TfL Go imo. Bus London used to have this feature but got rid of it.

Nathan's London Bus Hunter (Android only)

[Frenzie]

May 19, 2021 16:36:39 GMT vjaska said:

May 19, 2021 15:50:03 GMT Frenzie said:

Anyone know of a decent app that will tell me the number plate of every bus at a bus stop? This would be a great addition to TfL Go imo. Bus London used to have this feature but got rid of it.

On IOS, I recommend Bus Times or the excellent LondonBusPal which not only shows regs of each bus but also shows fleet number and a pic of that particular bus as well as information such as engine, chassis, age, etc.

Thank you very much for the reply. Will certainly take a look at them​.