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Post by greenboy on Dec 19, 2021 7:18:06 GMT
Said this before. Connect London Overground at New Cross to Mainline this could open 8tph increase of 4 to Dartford, Orpington and maybe Bromley North. Service from Gillingham, Peckham Rye/East Dulwich to Brighton. And it's been said before that there isn't the capacity to do that without removing some Southeastern services. Extending LO to Bromley North would be ideal but it's just not possible without cutting something else.
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Post by M1104 on Dec 19, 2021 12:37:21 GMT
The one I’d do is introduce a new Victoria to Croydon service but via Brixton, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill, Streatham and then rejoin the Brighton Line at Streatham Common. It could go further afield but I’m not sure where I’ve always thought a Victoria Line extension from Brixton to West Croydon via Streatham would be handy. As the Brixton loop already takes Brixton's running tunnels under the Herne Hill area the extension could ideally branch off to make Tulse Hill the first stop along your VLE suggestion.
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Post by buspete on Dec 19, 2021 12:54:30 GMT
Said this before. Connect London Overground at New Cross to Mainline this could open 8tph increase of 4 to Dartford, Orpington and maybe Bromley North. Service from Gillingham, Peckham Rye/East Dulwich to Brighton. And it's been said before that there isn't the capacity to do that without removing some Southeastern services. Extending LO to Bromley North would be ideal but it's just not possible without cutting something else. Sure I said money would need to be spent at Grove Park, via a flyover or dive under so no conflicting routes with Southeastern. Bromley North to Highbury Islington, Orpington to Dalton Junction and Dartford to Highbury Islington would be appealing? Extend Brixton Station so that Southeastern and London Overground could serve the station.
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Post by greenboy on Dec 19, 2021 13:12:48 GMT
And it's been said before that there isn't the capacity to do that without removing some Southeastern services. Extending LO to Bromley North would be ideal but it's just not possible without cutting something else. Sure I said money would need to be spent at Grove Park, via a flyover or dive under so no conflicting routes with Southeastern. Bromley North to Highbury Islington, Orpington to Dalton Junction and Dartford to Highbury Islington would be appealing? Extend Brixton Station so that Southeastern and London Overground could serve the station. I don't think there is room at Grove Park for a flyover even if it were financially viable. Orpington might be viable if it weren't for the Lewisham to New Cross section which is already at pretty much full capacity. I presume Brixton will be totally rebuilt at some point but probably not in the foreseeable future, probably the worst station in London although Elephant & Castle isn't much better.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 19, 2021 13:15:27 GMT
And it's been said before that there isn't the capacity to do that without removing some Southeastern services. Extending LO to Bromley North would be ideal but it's just not possible without cutting something else. Extend Brixton Station so that Southeastern and London Overground could serve the station. Definitely agree with that, such a neglected station that could offer so much if money was spent on it. I prefer using Tulse Hill because it offers so much more in terms of getting around
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Post by BE37054 (quoll662) on Dec 19, 2021 15:18:57 GMT
Extend Brixton Station so that Southeastern and London Overground could serve the station. Definitely agree with that, such a neglected station that could offer so much if money was spent on it. I prefer using Tulse Hill because it offers so much more in terms of getting around I often use that curve of track on the Overground and look down on Brixton Station and wonder why the Overground doesn't stop there. It's a very long stop between Clapham High Street and Denmark Hill, and could offer an interchange to the Victoria line into Central London.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 19, 2021 16:18:15 GMT
Definitely agree with that, such a neglected station that could offer so much if money was spent on it. I prefer using Tulse Hill because it offers so much more in terms of getting around I often use that curve of track on the Overground and look down on Brixton Station and wonder why the Overground doesn't stop there. It's a very long stop between Clapham High Street and Denmark Hill, and could offer an interchange to the Victoria line into Central London. The cost of building on the viaduct being prohibitive has been given as the main reason despite TfL purchasing land specifically to build the station. It would offer good links for us locals to places like Denmark Hill & Peckham Rye for onward Thameslink & Southeastern connections to the South East as well as to other places like Surrey Quays and a quicker link to Clapham Junction
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Post by buspete on Dec 19, 2021 17:34:43 GMT
Great if they did extend and modernise Brixton Station, would be a great benefit. There could be a case for Southeastern to serve Clapham High Street as well, as this is next to Clapham North Underground. I would have thought this would be appealing to the Labour major, as are in strong Labour voting areas.
Conversely London Underground going to Bromley North, would appeal to the current Government as Bromley North and Sundridge Park are very blue areas. New Cross to Lewisham isn’t over busy and has maybe 8-10tph. It just seems such a waste the London Overground terminating at New Cross as is just the Grove Park and Bromley North shuttle. Both these or one of these might not be possible, but it would be great to have a feasibility study to find out.
We know from other London Overground projects if the service gets provided, it gets used.
I was looking at an old 1946 timetable for the Bexleyheath Line, today a train takes 39 minutes to go Bexleyheath - Charing Cross, then in 1946 it took 35 minutes and the train made 3 additional stops, New Cross, St Johns and Eltham Park. Looking at a 1960 timetable there was a train that went fast from London Bridge - Eltham Well Hall and took 30 minutes. The great fanfare for the Thameslink project was it was going to rid one of the worst bottleneck in the country, by ‘untangling London Bridge’ the faster train times haven’t been delivered and train times pre Thameslink project were faster and this included an additional stop at New Cross and stuck in the said bottleneck.
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Post by paulsw2 on Dec 19, 2021 17:44:37 GMT
I’ve always thought a Victoria Line extension from Brixton to West Croydon via Streatham would be handy. As the Brixton loop already takes Brixton's running tunnels under the Herne Hill area the extension could ideally branch off to make Tulse Hill the first stop along your VLE suggestion. There is NO loop at Brixton there are 2 separate sidings 21 and 22 road. If a train is berthed on 21 it enters service from 21 road likewise stabled on 22 enters from 22.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 19, 2021 18:02:35 GMT
Great if they did extend and modernise Brixton Station, would be a great benefit. There could be a case for Southeastern to serve Clapham High Street as well, as this is next to Clapham North Underground. I would have thought this would be appealing to the Labour major, as are in strong Labour voting areas. Conversely London Underground going to Bromley North, would appeal to the current Government as Bromley North and Sundridge Park are very blue areas. New Cross to Lewisham isn’t over busy and has maybe 8-10tph. It just seems such a waste the London Overground terminating at New Cross as is just the Grove Park and Bromley North shuttle. Both these or one of these might not be possible, but it would be great to have a feasibility study to find out. We know from other London Overground projects if the service gets provided, it gets used. I was looking at an old 1946 timetable for the Bexleyheath Line, today a train takes 39 minutes to go Bexleyheath - Charing Cross, then in 1946 it took 35 minutes and the train made 3 additional stops, New Cross, St Johns and Eltham Park. Looking at a 1960 timetable there was a train that went fast from London Bridge - Eltham Well Hall and took 30 minutes. The great fanfare for the Thameslink project was it was going to rid one of the worst bottleneck in the country, by ‘untangling London Bridge’ the faster train times haven’t been delivered and train times pre Thameslink project were faster and this included an additional stop at New Cross and stuck in the said bottleneck. London Overground is unlikely to be extended beyond New Cross. To do that would set up eight conflicting movements each hour, four of which would impact on both the up and down lines. To get it over to the Bromley North branch involves either more conflicting movements across up to four lines, or a flyover - neither are feasible. Grove Park-Bromley North would be better converted into a driverless DLR-type self-contained shuttle at a higher frequency, and possibly an extra stop at New Street Hill. Or a tram extended to Bromley South with street running in Bromley Town Centre.
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Post by wirewiper on Dec 19, 2021 18:11:30 GMT
As the Brixton loop already takes Brixton's running tunnels under the Herne Hill area the extension could ideally branch off to make Tulse Hill the first stop along your VLE suggestion. There is NO loop at Brixton there are 2 separate sidings 21 and 22 road. If a train is berthed on 21 it enters service from 21 road likewise stabled on 22 enters from 22. There was at one time a proposal to extend the Victoria Line to Herne Hill by extending on from the sidings, the line would have formed a single one-way loop line rather like Heathrow Terminal 4. The purpose was to increase line capacity by eliminating turnround time at Brixton. This has been achieved instead by improving the track layout at Brixton to allow faster entry and exit at the approach to the station (this was also done at Walthamstow Central).
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Post by vjaska on Dec 19, 2021 18:33:27 GMT
Great if they did extend and modernise Brixton Station, would be a great benefit. There could be a case for Southeastern to serve Clapham High Street as well, as this is next to Clapham North Underground. I would have thought this would be appealing to the Labour major, as are in strong Labour voting areas. So would I but the mayor decided to approve a stupid tower block in the centre of Brixton that us locals have stated they don’t want which would affect one of the sites for a new station - www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.brixtonbuzz.com/2020/10/hondo-tower-threatens-lambeths-transport-policy-commitments-for-a-brixton-overground-connection/amp/. The problem is Lambeth is currently obsessed with getting cosy with a multitude of developers usually to do with projects that have next to nothing to do with affordable housing - Lambeth don’t care about an Overgound station or the current station in general when they should be making it a priority
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Post by M1104 on Dec 20, 2021 2:41:43 GMT
There is NO loop at Brixton there are 2 separate sidings 21 and 22 road. If a train is berthed on 21 it enters service from 21 road likewise stabled on 22 enters from 22. There was at one time a proposal to extend the Victoria Line to Herne Hill by extending on from the sidings, the line would have formed a single one-way loop line rather like Heathrow Terminal 4. The purpose was to increase line capacity by eliminating turnround time at Brixton. This has been achieved instead by improving the track layout at Brixton to allow faster entry and exit at the approach to the station (this was also done at Walthamstow Central). That's what I got confused by. I had assumed the loop was always there and that it was going to be modified to include Herne Hill.
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Post by 700101 on Dec 20, 2021 13:10:22 GMT
Said this before. Connect London Overground at New Cross to Mainline this could open 8tph increase of 4 to Dartford, Orpington and maybe Bromley North. Service from Gillingham, Peckham Rye/East Dulwich to Brighton. A Bromley North extension would be wonderful but as mentioned conflicting movements between Hither Green and Grove Park would cause lots of problems, a better idea would be to have the Bakerloo Line have a extension to Bromley North via Hither Green & Grove Park with an LO extension to Hither Green via Lewisham and using the sidings beyond the station (SE do this sometimes if they turn services at HGR), but some services would need to be removed from Lewisham in order to cater for LO extension from New Cross which would have to be the Via Sidcup & Orpington services. Running 5 car overground services to Dartford or Orpington would mean replacing some 10/12 car peak metro services and would be crush loaded so only an Extension as far as Hither Green or Sidcup would be a sensible option
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Post by Dillon95 on Dec 20, 2021 13:20:12 GMT
Said this before. Connect London Overground at New Cross to Mainline this could open 8tph increase of 4 to Dartford, Orpington and maybe Bromley North. Service from Gillingham, Peckham Rye/East Dulwich to Brighton. A Bromley North extension would be wonderful but as mentioned conflicting movements between Hither Green and Grove Park would cause lots of problems, a better idea would be to have the Bakerloo Line have a extension to Bromley North via Hither Green & Grove Park with an LO extension to Hither Green via Lewisham and using the sidings beyond the station (SE do this sometimes if they turn services at HGR), but some services would need to be removed from Lewisham in order to cater for LO extension from New Cross which would have to be the Via Sidcup & Orpington services. Running 5 car overground services to Dartford or Orpington would mean replacing some 10/12 car peak metro services and would be crush loaded so only an Extension as far as Hither Green or Sidcup would be a sensible option That can’t happen, people on the Sidcup and Orpington lines need Lewisham to change onto the DLR to get to Canary Wharf.
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