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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Feb 11, 2023 21:14:56 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this.
Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 11, 2023 21:25:25 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this. Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead. Ah but to keep the number 21 in the City you could renumbered the 141 to 21 oh and then to keep the 141 number at Newington Green then the 341 could become the 141. Rather like the 16 being kept lol.
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Post by northlondon83 on Feb 11, 2023 21:31:42 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this. Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead. Wonder why people get sad over the loss of route numbers
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Post by 15002 on Feb 11, 2023 22:03:16 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this. Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead. Wonder why people get sad over the loss of route numbers Sentimental/nostalgic reasoning.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 11, 2023 22:36:05 GMT
Wonder why people get sad over the loss of route numbers Sentimental/nostalgic reasoning. I get the nostalgia around it but it shouldn’t get in the way of the actual links involved which is the most important part.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 11, 2023 22:46:53 GMT
Wonder why people get sad over the loss of route numbers Sentimental/nostalgic reasoning. Clearly TFL do think the same and use it to disguise changes. Off the 3 routes going, 2 of the numbers have been re used with the 332 and 507 not initially proposed for 'withdrawal'. We also know alternative plans say the 14/72/74 remaining aswell.
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Post by SILENCED on Feb 12, 2023 9:58:23 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this. Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead. The 21 has 90 years of history though!
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 12, 2023 12:14:36 GMT
I saw an article apparently mourning the withdrawal of route 271 after over 60 years. It did not have to come to this. Route 271 could still have been withdrawn from Highgate Village just as far as Holloway. It could then have been extended from Finsbury Square to Lewisham and reassigned to GA (NX). Then route 21 could have been withdrawn instead. The 21 has 90 years of history though! The only thing they could possibly have done it duvet the 271 to Highbury Barn and extend it to Barnet Hospital if it was felt the 271 number was really synonymous with Highagte Village to avoid confusion with people heading from Nag's Head to Highagte Station on the 263 which it doesn't do now.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 12, 2023 12:44:49 GMT
The 21 has 90 years of history though! The only thing they could possibly have done it duvet the 271 to Highbury Barn and extend it to Barnet Hospital if it was felt the 271 number was really synonymous with Highagte Village to avoid confusion with people heading from Nag's Head to Highagte Station on the 263 which it doesn't do now. But that would then cause confusion with the revised 271 veering off to Highbury Barn rather than Moorgate! It was the 271 that was withdrawn, no need to dress it up. The 21 and 263 are still essentially the same routes over much of their length. And yes I know TfL has swapped numbers around before but I don't think it is necessary to do so, and certainly not in this case.
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 12, 2023 12:49:04 GMT
The only thing they could possibly have done it duvet the 271 to Highbury Barn and extend it to Barnet Hospital if it was felt the 271 number was really synonymous with Highagte Village to avoid confusion with people heading from Nag's Head to Highagte Station on the 263 which it doesn't do now. But that would then cause confusion with the revised 271 veering off to Highbury Barn rather than Moorgate! It was the 271 that was withdrawn, no need to dress it up. The 21 and 263 are still essentially the same routes over much of their length. And yes I know TfL has swapped numbers around before but I don't think it is necessary to do so, and certainly not in this case. I totally agree. I was more giving examples of how tfl could have dressed it up if they wanted. I did see an article with the headline the 271 will be dearly missed then the quote from a passenger they used to use it alot to get down to Islington from Highgate Village which ofcourse the 263 will still do. Often its lack of info in posters now which don't make the replacement so obvious.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 12, 2023 13:06:01 GMT
But that would then cause confusion with the revised 271 veering off to Highbury Barn rather than Moorgate! It was the 271 that was withdrawn, no need to dress it up. The 21 and 263 are still essentially the same routes over much of their length. And yes I know TfL has swapped numbers around before but I don't think it is necessary to do so, and certainly not in this case. I totally agree. I was more giving examples of how tfl could have dressed it up if they wanted. I did see an article with the headline the 271 will be dearly missed then the quote from a passenger they used to use it alot to get down to Islington from Highgate Village which ofcourse the 263 will still do. Often its lack of info in posters now which don't make the replacement so obvious. Depends on what part of Islington they’re going to - anywhere south of Highbury & Islington, then the 263 doesn’t go there
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 12, 2023 13:48:30 GMT
I totally agree. I was more giving examples of how tfl could have dressed it up if they wanted. I did see an article with the headline the 271 will be dearly missed then the quote from a passenger they used to use it alot to get down to Islington from Highgate Village which ofcourse the 263 will still do. Often its lack of info in posters now which don't make the replacement so obvious. Depends on what part of Islington they’re going to - anywhere south of Highbury & Islington, then the 263 doesn’t go there I think it said High & Isl but I'll have to check. Either way the first Saturday I had to tell a few people at the bus stop where the 21 would take then and that the 263 would take them to Highgate Vill. Those lines on the map weren't very clear to some. I bet many people first knew about it was on Saturday the 4th.
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Post by northlondon83 on Feb 12, 2023 14:13:16 GMT
The 21 has 90 years of history though! The only thing they could possibly have done it duvet the 271 to Highbury Barn and extend it to Barnet Hospital if it was felt the 271 number was really synonymous with Highagte Village to avoid confusion with people heading from Nag's Head to Highagte Station on the 263 which it doesn't do now. Then you're basically doing what tfl did to the 332/16. Neither solution is particularly ideal, but tfl has publicized changes to route 263 so I don't think people would be confused
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Post by southlondonbus on Feb 12, 2023 16:00:58 GMT
The only thing they could possibly have done it duvet the 271 to Highbury Barn and extend it to Barnet Hospital if it was felt the 271 number was really synonymous with Highagte Village to avoid confusion with people heading from Nag's Head to Highagte Station on the 263 which it doesn't do now. Then you're basically doing what tfl did to the 332/16. Neither solution is particularly ideal, but tfl has publicized changes to route 263 so I don't think people would be confused I'm not suggesting they do it at at they won't now. I was pointing the creative way they could have kept the 271 in Highgate Village.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Feb 22, 2023 22:03:40 GMT
Admittedly, I do not post as much on this forum as I have previously, I only comment a couple of times a month and have noticed that I have not commented on the 234/263/271 changes as yet.
As a local, I will try and give as much of an insight as possible regarding the changes and highlight any issues I have noticed since the changes 3 weeks ago.
143: The service in my opinion has improved since the 263 diversion through the Village. You can now board the 143 bearably for most of the day, lots more capacity on offer for East Finchley where it mops up large numbers for East End Road.
234: As extensions go, this has been rather lackluster regarding demand. I doubt it particularly helps that Archway and Highgate are already linked to Muswell Hill and Friern Barnet with the more frequent 43 and 134 (which also happen to take a more direct route) and it's not uncommon to see a 234 trundling along the Archway Road with, at most, half a dozen passengers. I'm not here to say the Archway Road to East Finchley and Highgate Wood link should be completely abolished - but surely there would have been some better ways of matching capacity and introducing new links in the process (W5?). It isn't anything special really.
263: WOW. The 263 has certainly been an interesting route to see since the changes took place 3 weeks ago. Not only has the 263 already been diverted back down its old line of route through Highgate owing to works round Dartmouth Park Hill/Highgate Hill, but it has seen some very interesting changes in demand. The 263 has got noticeably busier up the Holloway Road, picking up all the slack from the 271 and it helping the 143 out between Archway and East Finchley, however I have noticed when boarding at Highbury & Islington Station towards Barnet Hospital, even during the off-peak, that the bus already has a good number of passengers onboard. Whether I've not been paying attention before the changes to have noticed this, I have no clue, but it seems the 263 is already relatively well filled for what I would consider to be quite a useless "stub" of a section to the Barn. However, the 263 has had a massive issue - a copious number of curtailments and gaps in service. I have seen plenty of 263s turned at Archway, Holloway Nags Head and East Finchley since the changes, which could be attributed to increased dwell times as a result of there being less buses per hour between Nags Head and Archway. I'm not so sure I could attribute any traffic through the Village to the increase in the number of curtailments across the route, especially as the A1 would regularly jam up between Bakers Lane and Highgate Station towards Archway and from Langdon Park Road to Bakers Lane towards Finchley. I don't quite know what the solution is here, but I certainly wouldn't be advocating for a cut.
N271: Even though it has not existed for long, the N271 has been a disappointment regarding passenger numbers north of Archway. For a service which was already at risk of withdrawal a few years back, I imagine the extension hasn't helped it's case given there are very few passengers north of Archway. Perhaps it should be looked at again if things don't pick up?
I cannot comment on the 21 due to me having not seen it enough.
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