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Post by SILENCED on Apr 21, 2024 14:20:06 GMT
True but at the same time the "Loop" is starting to look very messy. That draft map of routes has started to look like a messy tube map. The loop might have been a good idea for the initial routes but as more routes are added its just not really working. X or Express routes seemed more logical to me but perhaps TfL know the services can't really be considered express because of congestion. I don't think that has anything to do with it as buses have Express written on them. Superloop is a brand and even if these routes aren't a loop anymore they're associated with the brand. Nothing different to how Emirates have a slogan 'from Dubai to the World' even though they've got a multitude of flights that do not go to Dubai. It does diminish the brand if the whole loop idea become irrelevant. There really did not seem to be a lot of thought at TfL when the original brand was created.
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PGAT
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Post by PGAT on Apr 21, 2024 14:26:25 GMT
I don't think that has anything to do with it as buses have Express written on them. Superloop is a brand and even if these routes aren't a loop anymore they're associated with the brand. Nothing different to how Emirates have a slogan 'from Dubai to the World' even though they've got a multitude of flights that do not go to Dubai. It does diminish the brand if the whole loop idea become irrelevant. There really did not seem to be a lot of thought at TfL when the original brand was created. People, after years of calling it the Superloop, don’t think or care about the etymology of the names. It just is what it is. The Northern Line hasn’t become “diminished” because its not the only tube line to serve North London, or is actually the furthest South the network goes, people just go on with their lives calling it the Northern Line
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Post by SILENCED on Apr 21, 2024 15:13:24 GMT
It does diminish the brand if the whole loop idea become irrelevant. There really did not seem to be a lot of thought at TfL when the original brand was created. People, after years of calling it the Superloop, don’t think or care about the etymology of the names. It just is what it is. The Northern Line hasn’t become “diminished” because its not the only tube line to serve North London, or is actually the furthest South the network goes, people just go on with their lives calling it the Northern Line But it is months not years ... How the word express is not in the name I have no idea.
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PGAT
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Post by PGAT on Apr 21, 2024 15:32:06 GMT
People, after years of calling it the Superloop, don’t think or care about the etymology of the names. It just is what it is. The Northern Line hasn’t become “diminished” because its not the only tube line to serve North London, or is actually the furthest South the network goes, people just go on with their lives calling it the Northern Line But it is months not years ... How the word express is not in the name I have no idea. By the time the routes become implemented it will be years. If you're not convinced by the timescale think the Elizabeth Line. Did the Queen's death diminish the brand image of the line? Was it short-sighted of TfL to name a line after a person that would die? Obviously they're different circumstances but the point I'm trying to get across is that it just does not matter and will not affect how the network is perceived.
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Post by ronnie on Apr 21, 2024 15:44:35 GMT
An X53 running from Trafalgar Square to Thamesmead would be great, then you could have the 453 as it is now and have the 53 cut back to E&C as the stopping services. Would be far more useful than yet another route between North Greenwich & Woolwich 😒🙄 I disagree - without significant easing of congestion and/or decent priority through bottlenecks being implemented, there is no point in running routes like the X53. Think the X53 won’t be too bad honestly as long as Blackwall tunnel / dartford crossing havnt gone kaput. Thamesmead - plumstead - woolwich (via the 472) is quite fast. It can then avoid going through woolwich town centre and probably use the SCR to get back onto the 53 LOR. The real pinchpoint is the bit on Blackheath hill + the bit through Deptford and admittedly I don’t have a solution for that. But once you get through that, pretty much the entire way till Westminster bridge has bus priority. I have done Blackheath royal standard to OKR Tesco just after 9am on an “average” day in just about 40 min so an express route is definitely doable - something till TCR / Russell Square for example What tfl need to do is to sort out bus speeds in the central zones. They havnt helped themselves by these non/sensical 20mph zones and ridiculous cycle lanes. Some of these gyratory removal schemes have also hurt massively as now you have more signals than before
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 21, 2024 16:13:10 GMT
I disagree - without significant easing of congestion and/or decent priority through bottlenecks being implemented, there is no point in running routes like the X53. Think the X53 won’t be too bad honestly as long as Blackwall tunnel / dartford crossing havnt gone kaput. Thamesmead - plumstead - woolwich (via the 472) is quite fast. It can then avoid going through woolwich town centre and probably use the SCR to get back onto the 53 LOR. The real pinchpoint is the bit on Blackheath hill + the bit through Deptford and admittedly I don’t have a solution for that. But once you get through that, pretty much the entire way till Westminster bridge has bus priority. I have done Blackheath royal standard to OKR Tesco just after 9am on an “average” day in just about 40 min so an express route is definitely doable - something till TCR / Russell Square for example What tfl need to do is to sort out bus speeds in the central zones. They havnt helped themselves by these non/sensical 20mph zones and ridiculous cycle lanes. Some of these gyratory removal schemes have also hurt massively as now you have more signals than before Really its been those things which have largely turned alot of people off of buses I'm zone 1/2 with City and Tower Hamlets up to 85% levels, Lewisham 88%, Southwark 89%, Westminster 79%, Kensington 75% and Islington 81%. Ofcouse as we know this is based on 2019 figured when a decline had already set in.
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Post by enviroPB on Apr 28, 2024 18:40:24 GMT
Just wanted to comment that I had two legitimate uses involving the Superloop last week Friday. First was a meet up in Pontoon Dock which involved taking the SL2 to Gallions Reach for the first time. The UeL bus stops have completely been taken over with livery! A pretty quick 15 minute journey which included some traffic, but the annoyance of not accessing Silvertown Way from North Woolwich got annoying with the 474 diverted through to Custom House. However, more and more people are using the 474 to head to Custom House/Excel from City Airport, so a mixed bag. Second journey was from Barking to New Southgate for a birthday dinner. A journey time of an hour on the trains vs the 50 minutes on the Superloop made it a clear choice in vehicle mode! Unfortunately the journey on the SL1, though very quick up till AD with a former driver on the 78, crawled throughout Bounds Green due to an accident on the westbound carriage adding 5 mins onto my trip. Still, the SL1 dropped me literally outside of the residence where I needed to be! I'm not going to completely overhaul my schedule to it fits around the Superloop network, but if there is a trip I need to do and can incorporate it, I will try to use the SL network when I can. It's not so bad... under the right conditions.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 28, 2024 19:14:58 GMT
Just wanted to comment that I had two legitimate uses involving the Superloop last week Friday. First was a meet up in Pontoon Dock which involved taking the SL2 to Gallions Reach for the first time. The UeL bus stops have completely been taken over with livery! A pretty quick 15 minute journey which included some traffic, but the annoyance of not accessing Silvertown Way from North Woolwich got annoying with the 474 diverted through to Custom House. However, more and more people are using the 474 to head to Custom House/Excel from City Airport, so a mixed bag. Second journey was from Barking to New Southgate for a birthday dinner. A journey time of an hour on the trains vs the 50 minutes on the Superloop made it a clear choice in vehicle mode! Unfortunately the journey on the SL1, though very quick up till AD with a former driver on the 78, crawled throughout Bounds Green due to an accident on the westbound carriage adding 5 mins onto my trip. Still, the SL1 dropped me literally outside of the residence where I needed to be! I'm not going to completely overhaul my schedule to it fits around the Superloop network, but if there is a trip I need to do and can incorporate it, I will try to use the SL network when I can. It's not so bad... under the right conditions. I am going to prove unpopular with this reply but living on the line of the 474 route and seeing the route day in day out both for leisure and commuting I am going to refute that claim the 474 is well use to and from Custom House. The route carries fresh air apart from when the DLR is closed. The service on the old section from Manor Park to City Airport is just the same as the old service and carried on as normal but the new reroute section and 241 to Royal Wharf have failed spectacularly and I would go as far and say they will be charged in the future!
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Post by abellion on Apr 28, 2024 20:06:27 GMT
Just wanted to comment that I had two legitimate uses involving the Superloop last week Friday. First was a meet up in Pontoon Dock which involved taking the SL2 to Gallions Reach for the first time. The UeL bus stops have completely been taken over with livery! A pretty quick 15 minute journey which included some traffic, but the annoyance of not accessing Silvertown Way from North Woolwich got annoying with the 474 diverted through to Custom House. However, more and more people are using the 474 to head to Custom House/Excel from City Airport, so a mixed bag. Second journey was from Barking to New Southgate for a birthday dinner. A journey time of an hour on the trains vs the 50 minutes on the Superloop made it a clear choice in vehicle mode! Unfortunately the journey on the SL1, though very quick up till AD with a former driver on the 78, crawled throughout Bounds Green due to an accident on the westbound carriage adding 5 mins onto my trip. Still, the SL1 dropped me literally outside of the residence where I needed to be! I'm not going to completely overhaul my schedule to it fits around the Superloop network, but if there is a trip I need to do and can incorporate it, I will try to use the SL network when I can. It's not so bad... under the right conditions. I agree with your last point, in fact I think that in the right conditions they are exceptional, going out on Saturday mornings and other quieter periods is a breeze with zero traffic and minimal loads getting around at mostly high speeds. A lot of discourse clouds new routes regarding traffic but I am selfishly quite excited for more new routes to make orbital travel much easier, such as Streatham-Eltham finally giving an alternative to the P13 and the Richmond one potentially getting the 493 cut back. Obviously the Superloop doesn't exist for enthusiasts but I've found it incredibly useful in that regard, especially being busy and not having much time for riding freely, it makes it much easier to cover more ground.
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Post by southlondon413 on Apr 28, 2024 20:32:56 GMT
Just wanted to comment that I had two legitimate uses involving the Superloop last week Friday. First was a meet up in Pontoon Dock which involved taking the SL2 to Gallions Reach for the first time. The UeL bus stops have completely been taken over with livery! A pretty quick 15 minute journey which included some traffic, but the annoyance of not accessing Silvertown Way from North Woolwich got annoying with the 474 diverted through to Custom House. However, more and more people are using the 474 to head to Custom House/Excel from City Airport, so a mixed bag. Second journey was from Barking to New Southgate for a birthday dinner. A journey time of an hour on the trains vs the 50 minutes on the Superloop made it a clear choice in vehicle mode! Unfortunately the journey on the SL1, though very quick up till AD with a former driver on the 78, crawled throughout Bounds Green due to an accident on the westbound carriage adding 5 mins onto my trip. Still, the SL1 dropped me literally outside of the residence where I needed to be! I'm not going to completely overhaul my schedule to it fits around the Superloop network, but if there is a trip I need to do and can incorporate it, I will try to use the SL network when I can. It's not so bad... under the right conditions. I agree with your last point, in fact I think that in the right conditions they are exceptional, going out on Saturday mornings and other quieter periods is a breeze with zero traffic and minimal loads getting around at mostly high speeds. A lot of discourse clouds new routes regarding traffic but I am selfishly quite excited for more new routes to make orbital travel much easier, such as Streatham-Eltham finally giving an alternative to the P13 and the Richmond one potentially getting the 493 cut back. Obviously the Superloop doesn't exist for enthusiasts but I've found it incredibly useful in that regard, especially being busy and not having much time for riding freely, it makes it much easier to cover more ground. Are there many end to end journeys between Streatham and Eltham? The superloop is fine if you are on the network but if you are in between stops it’s not helpful at all. It wouldn’t be helpful to find your service cut just because you don’t benefit from the existing network or any future developments on it.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 28, 2024 20:58:00 GMT
I agree with your last point, in fact I think that in the right conditions they are exceptional, going out on Saturday mornings and other quieter periods is a breeze with zero traffic and minimal loads getting around at mostly high speeds. A lot of discourse clouds new routes regarding traffic but I am selfishly quite excited for more new routes to make orbital travel much easier, such as Streatham-Eltham finally giving an alternative to the P13 and the Richmond one potentially getting the 493 cut back. Obviously the Superloop doesn't exist for enthusiasts but I've found it incredibly useful in that regard, especially being busy and not having much time for riding freely, it makes it much easier to cover more ground. Are there many end to end journeys between Streatham and Eltham? The superloop is fine if you are on the network but if you are in between stops it’s not helpful at all. It wouldn’t be helpful to find your service cut just because you don’t benefit from the existing network or any future developments on it. I would say almost no one would ever need to go from Streatham to Eltham and vice versa simply because there is no benefit outside of the odd person who may know someone living in the two places. The furthest east in that direction someone from Streatham would go is probably Catford and that's why I feel a Superloop route here is wasted. I'm not worried about any services being cut alongside this route simply because any route it parallels, it only does so for a very short distance and the 185 is probably the one it parallels the one and that's a very busy route in it's own right but I agree in other cases, it wouldn't be helpful if services are cut alongside to facilitate such a route - outside London there are cases where express routes and regular routes exist alongside each other so I don't see why the same approach, where appropriate of course, couldn't be adopted in London.
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Post by abellion on Apr 28, 2024 21:16:44 GMT
I agree with your last point, in fact I think that in the right conditions they are exceptional, going out on Saturday mornings and other quieter periods is a breeze with zero traffic and minimal loads getting around at mostly high speeds. A lot of discourse clouds new routes regarding traffic but I am selfishly quite excited for more new routes to make orbital travel much easier, such as Streatham-Eltham finally giving an alternative to the P13 and the Richmond one potentially getting the 493 cut back. Obviously the Superloop doesn't exist for enthusiasts but I've found it incredibly useful in that regard, especially being busy and not having much time for riding freely, it makes it much easier to cover more ground. Are there many end to end journeys between Streatham and Eltham? The superloop is fine if you are on the network but if you are in between stops it’s not helpful at all. It wouldn’t be helpful to find your service cut just because you don’t benefit from the existing network or any future developments on it. I didn’t mean people want to go from Streatham to Eltham, I was just referring to the route by the proposed termini. As discussed on here extensively the use of the A205 and the improving of links around it has a lot of potential. Eltham does seem like a bit of a weird choice to terminate the route though when the likes of Lewisham and Catford are far closer and more major.
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Post by DT 11 on May 1, 2024 1:08:40 GMT
The Superloop 2 proposal looks great however the numbers are now so confusing to make any sense to anyone at least the SL4 will finally connect to something! Disappointed the SL2 & SL3 have no connection.
Anyways my thoughts, some areas I am not familiar please do feel free to comment if I am not correct. Not one to make garage predictions but seeing these are new routes here are my thoughts.
I see the SL5 & SL7 have been slightly changed.
SL11-Harrow-Barnet - Seems to be the 340 & 107. Metroline PB as the capacity is there
SL12-Barnet-Stratford - I think this will be quite popular a combination of the 97 & 307. Metroline PB as the capacity is there
SL13-Leytonstone-South Havering the 66 & 365? Again quite popular. Arriva DX or GY
SL14-North Greenwich-Thamesmead the old 472. I would suggest extending the SL3 to North Greenwich however would make it quite long. I would look to extend this route to Eltham Station via the 132 this would solve some of the capacity problems the 132 has, double running North Greenwich can exit North Greenwich and directly join the A102 and go straight to Eltham Station. This should be an easy route to run once the Silvertown Crossing opens. Stagecoach PD
SL15-Lewisham-Elephant & Castle. This link has been called for for years now does not link any other routes! Personally I would go further by extending this to Bromley Common. Go Ahead London NX if space needed a slight reshuffle also the possibility of TL Catford as the capacity is there.
SL16-Eltham-Streatham a new link will it be popular I do believe so, I was going to suggest an extension to North Greenwich however the reliability my become a problem. Arriva BN
SL17-Wimbledon-Richmond… 493 waste of time needs to be extended elsewhere such as Clapham Park via the 57 and again does not link any other routes! Reason I say 57 is because whenever I do the 249 I see larger crowds waiting for the 57 at Streatham Church! No idea where this would go until Garth Road opens if it ever does going to say Go Ahead London AL for now!
SL18-Kingston-Ealing Broadway the 65. Metroline AH
SL19-Hammersmith-Hounslow the H91 Hounslow Heath HH
SL20-Ealing Broadway-Hendon the 112? Metroline W
Not related but I do believe the 96 needs a 24 hour service. Also 210 to Stamford Hill but will go Single Decker is that a good idea to reduce capacity on a double decker route?
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Post by ronnie on May 1, 2024 6:03:24 GMT
The Superloop 2 proposal looks great however the numbers are now so confusing to make any sense to anyone at least the SL4 will finally connect to something! Disappointed the SL2 & SL3 have no connection. Anyways my thoughts, some areas I am not familiar please do feel free to comment if I am not correct. Not one to make garage predictions but seeing these are new routes here are my thoughts. I see the SL5 & SL7 have been slightly changed. SL11-Harrow-Barnet - Seems to be the 340 & 107. Metroline PB as the capacity is there SL12-Barnet-Stratford - I think this will be quite popular a combination of the 97 & 307. Metroline PB as the capacity is there SL13-Leytonstone-South Havering the 66 & 365? Again quite popular. Arriva DX or GY SL14-North Greenwich-Thamesmead the old 472. I would suggest extending the SL3 to North Greenwich however would make it quite long. I would look to extend this route to Eltham Station via the 132 this would solve some of the capacity problems the 132 has, double running North Greenwich can exit North Greenwich and directly join the A102 and go straight to Eltham Station. This should be an easy route to run once the Silvertown Crossing opens. Stagecoach PD SL15-Lewisham-Elephant & Castle. This link has been called for for years now does not link any other routes! Personally I would go further by extending this to Bromley Common. Go Ahead London NX if space needed a slight reshuffle also the possibility of TL Catford as the capacity is there. SL16-Eltham-Streatham a new link will it be popular I do believe so, I was going to suggest an extension to North Greenwich however the reliability my become a problem. Arriva BN SL17-Wimbledon-Richmond… 493 waste of time needs to be extended elsewhere such as Clapham Park via the 57 and again does not link any other routes! Reason I say 57 is because whenever I do the 249 I see larger crowds waiting for the 57 at Streatham Church! No idea where this would go until Garth Road opens if it ever does going to say Go Ahead London AL for now! SL18-Kingston-Ealing Broadway the 65. Metroline AH SL19-Hammersmith-Hounslow the H91 Hounslow Heath HH SL20-Ealing Broadway-Hendon the 112? Metroline W Not related but I do believe the 96 needs a 24 hour service. Also 210 to Stamford Hill but will go Single Decker is that a good idea to reduce capacity on a double decker route? On the SL14 extension to Eltham, I would fully agree. This would solve a lot of the problems on that side from a capacity perspective. My only concern is that in the peaks (esp the morning peak) the A102 is a mess and the 132 is frequently on diversion through the 335 LOR. Suspect SL14 will have to do the same. I am guessing the reason why the Streatham - Eltham bus goes to Eltham is because of stand space; with Eltham station having some capacity if I am not wrong. The Catford gyratory might get removed in the near future hence the route not going there …
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Post by rj131 on May 1, 2024 6:11:18 GMT
The Superloop 2 proposal looks great however the numbers are now so confusing to make any sense to anyone at least the SL4 will finally connect to something! Disappointed the SL2 & SL3 have no connection. Anyways my thoughts, some areas I am not familiar please do feel free to comment if I am not correct. Not one to make garage predictions but seeing these are new routes here are my thoughts. I see the SL5 & SL7 have been slightly changed. SL11-Harrow-Barnet - Seems to be the 340 & 107. Metroline PB as the capacity is there SL12-Barnet-Stratford - I think this will be quite popular a combination of the 97 & 307. Metroline PB as the capacity is there SL13-Leytonstone-South Havering the 66 & 365? Again quite popular. Arriva DX or GY SL14-North Greenwich-Thamesmead the old 472. I would suggest extending the SL3 to North Greenwich however would make it quite long. I would look to extend this route to Eltham Station via the 132 this would solve some of the capacity problems the 132 has, double running North Greenwich can exit North Greenwich and directly join the A102 and go straight to Eltham Station. This should be an easy route to run once the Silvertown Crossing opens. Stagecoach PD SL15-Lewisham-Elephant & Castle. This link has been called for for years now does not link any other routes! Personally I would go further by extending this to Bromley Common. Go Ahead London NX if space needed a slight reshuffle also the possibility of TL Catford as the capacity is there. SL16-Eltham-Streatham a new link will it be popular I do believe so, I was going to suggest an extension to North Greenwich however the reliability my become a problem. Arriva BN SL17-Wimbledon-Richmond… 493 waste of time needs to be extended elsewhere such as Clapham Park via the 57 and again does not link any other routes! Reason I say 57 is because whenever I do the 249 I see larger crowds waiting for the 57 at Streatham Church! No idea where this would go until Garth Road opens if it ever does going to say Go Ahead London AL for now! SL18-Kingston-Ealing Broadway the 65. Metroline AH SL19-Hammersmith-Hounslow the H91 Hounslow Heath HH SL20-Ealing Broadway-Hendon the 112? Metroline W Not related but I do believe the 96 needs a 24 hour service. Also 210 to Stamford Hill but will go Single Decker is that a good idea to reduce capacity on a double decker route? I’ m pretty sure the SL5/7 on the new SL map is a mistake but we’ll see. It very well might not be! The 210 to Stamford Hill, I’m pretty sure it’s going to be a new SD route running alongside the 210, not replacing it from what I read (will guess number 310). And I’m pretty sure it has to be SD because of a low bridge?
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