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Post by rif153 on Jun 12, 2023 10:44:51 GMT
Yes RATP massively benefited from Arriva giving up their London work at Garston. I wish first were around as some parts of West and North West London feel too Metroline dominated without much else. Although the 142 and shortly , the 251,223 & H17 will be Metroline. Whatever inroads ratp made into NW London are diminshing back in favour of dominant Metroline. Indeed, the loss of the 139 felt like the turning point as I considered that Sovereign's flagship route.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jun 14, 2023 20:46:26 GMT
I think Arriva have a single route in Lewisham, Route 202 in a borough dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead. Abellio also have the 484 in the borough.
If you split Arriva down to the North and South subsidiaries, Route 78 is the main Arriva London North route that goes the furthest south in Southwark to Nunhead which means it'll be I think the most affected by Arriva's strike next week in South London.
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Post by TB123 on Jun 14, 2023 20:57:28 GMT
I think Arriva have a single route in Lewisham, Route 202 in a borough dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead. Abellio also have the 484 in the borough. If you split Arriva down to the North and South subsidiaries, Route 78 is the main Arriva London North route that goes the furthest south in Southwark to Nunhead which means it'll be I think the most affected by Arriva's strike next week in South London. 194, 450 (until September) also Arriva in Lewisham borough. 484 is Go-Ahead now as of March 2021. I think Abellio's P13 might breifly enter Lewisham at New Cross gate.
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Post by vjaska on Jun 14, 2023 22:11:05 GMT
I think Arriva have a single route in Lewisham, Route 202 in a borough dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead. Abellio also have the 484 in the borough. If you split Arriva down to the North and South subsidiaries, Route 78 is the main Arriva London North route that goes the furthest south in Southwark to Nunhead which means it'll be I think the most affected by Arriva's strike next week in South London. 194, 450 (until September) also Arriva in Lewisham borough. 484 is Go-Ahead now as of March 2021. I think Abellio's P13 might breifly enter Lewisham at New Cross gate. The P13 indeed does - it enters at the Pomeroy Street & Lausanne Road junction
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 14, 2023 22:36:24 GMT
549 meets no other Sullivan route I believe
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 14, 2023 22:55:13 GMT
The merger of Stagecoach with HCT and TT has unfortunately led to less variance across East London. It's becoming mainly a duopoly of Go Ahead and Stagecoach with a small bit of Arriva which is unfortunately declining. It wasn't a merger, it was a buyout of both TT and HCT by Stagecoach. Mergers have very different meanings to buyouts, a merger is more similar to what happened to TT and RATP. I don't think there's much wrong in the duopoly in East London for anything to be unfortunate. What's important to TfL is that a competitive environment is maintained and I'm sure everyone on here can agree that Stagecoach and GAL both manage to keep each other in check. Neither go too high with their bidding as the other will be lurking around. Likewise what's important to the passenger is that a good service is provided on routes, and at least with the loss of Tower Transit and decline of Arriva there's been a positive trend towards an improvement in service.
I think the way this is moving, there's not going to be many (if any) small players left in the London market. We've lost Tower Transit, lost HCT and are now losing Sullivans over the next few years too. Uno is the only company left that is small. Going back further we had operators such as Quality Line and Metrobus who themselves got swallowed up by larger companies and slowly became more integrated within the larger company. Just a gloss over who we have left (% figures taken from LBR.net): Go Ahead - 25.57% Arriva - 17.7% Stagecoach - 16.82% Metroline - 15.92% RATP - 13.52% Abellio - 9.18% Sullivan - 0.8% Uno - 0.08% There doesn't seem to be much incentive for new players to enter the market, if anything it looks like TfL want big corporations and big corporations only operating their routes. Nonsense. Explain how there is a positive trend of improvement of services. Operators are struggling to make figures over the past few months due to roadworks, RTC's and TfL interference
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Post by orangejamieboss on Jun 15, 2023 11:06:50 GMT
I am going to mention Westminster as even though there is not exactly a 'dominant' operator within the borough, it is worth having a look at given that it contains all major operators (that being Go Ahead, Arriva, Abellio, Metroline and RATP).
After having a look at which operator has the most routes within the borough here are the rankings from most to least. Note that these do not include night routes.
1. Go-Ahead London (21 routes) 2. Metroline (17 routes) 3. RATP (13 routes) 4. Arriva London (9 routes) 5. Abellio London (6 routes) 6. Stagecoach London (4 routes)
However, while most people think of Westminster being Central London, there is quite a large section of the borough which is residential and outside Central London in which there are monopolies of operators. Therefore in certain areas of Westminster, some dominance can be seen.
In the North of the borough:
Queen's Park (Metroline | Routes 6, 187 and 316)
Harrow Road (RATP | Routes 18, 28 and 228)
Maida Hill (Metroline | Routes 6, 31, and 328)
Maida Vale / St John's Wood (Metroline | Routes 16, 46, 98 and 187)
Lisson Grove (Metroline | Routes 139 and 189)
In the south of borough, areas such as Pimlico are dominated by Go Ahead London and Abellio (Routes 24,36, 185, 360 and C10)
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 15, 2023 22:06:53 GMT
It wasn't a merger, it was a buyout of both TT and HCT by Stagecoach. Mergers have very different meanings to buyouts, a merger is more similar to what happened to TT and RATP. I don't think there's much wrong in the duopoly in East London for anything to be unfortunate. What's important to TfL is that a competitive environment is maintained and I'm sure everyone on here can agree that Stagecoach and GAL both manage to keep each other in check. Neither go too high with their bidding as the other will be lurking around. Likewise what's important to the passenger is that a good service is provided on routes, and at least with the loss of Tower Transit and decline of Arriva there's been a positive trend towards an improvement in service.
I think the way this is moving, there's not going to be many (if any) small players left in the London market. We've lost Tower Transit, lost HCT and are now losing Sullivans over the next few years too. Uno is the only company left that is small. Going back further we had operators such as Quality Line and Metrobus who themselves got swallowed up by larger companies and slowly became more integrated within the larger company. Just a gloss over who we have left (% figures taken from LBR.net): Go Ahead - 25.57% Arriva - 17.7% Stagecoach - 16.82% Metroline - 15.92% RATP - 13.52% Abellio - 9.18% Sullivan - 0.8% Uno - 0.08% There doesn't seem to be much incentive for new players to enter the market, if anything it looks like TfL want big corporations and big corporations only operating their routes. Nonsense. Explain how there is a positive trend of improvement of services. Operators are struggling to make figures over the past few months due to roadworks, RTC's and TfL interference Tower Transit were banging up at the bottom of every league table with HCT around the bottom too. Arriva in East London are a disaster operation wise now and the graphs of all their routes are either in the process of, or already are painting mountain ranges. Stagecoach and Go Ahead despite being dominant are the two operators providing people with a constant service.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jun 16, 2023 22:45:48 GMT
Nonsense. Explain how there is a positive trend of improvement of services. Operators are struggling to make figures over the past few months due to roadworks, RTC's and TfL interference Tower Transit were banging up at the bottom of every league table with HCT around the bottom too. Arriva in East London are a disaster operation wise now and the graphs of all their routes are either in the process of, or already are painting mountain ranges. Stagecoach and Go Ahead despite being dominant are the two operators providing people with a constant service. Prove it, I have the proof to back my statements up. Some of Tower Transit things would not show as much as it did previously as it is further integrated within Stagecoach. It has improved at [LI] as there was a clearance of some staff. Any of the times that Arriva was lagging in East London was down to roadworks and then Stagecoach were rock bottom. North London is what has pulled Arriva back over the past year of so, with LTN's and roadworks.
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