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Post by tooting395 on Jun 10, 2023 16:25:55 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who?
Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator.
I'll start of with my area.
Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now.
Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead.
Merton - almost all Go-Ahead.
Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach.
Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 10, 2023 16:58:58 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 10, 2023 17:05:01 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. Think all East London boroughs are mostly Stagecoach and Go Ahead ever since Stagecoach ate up LI and CT Plus. Every route in B&D is either Stagecoach or Go Ahead except the 66, 103, 325 and 175, and the 325 is going Go Ahead itself. Every route in Newham apart from the 325 and 158 are Stagecoach and Go Ahead, and the 325 is going to Go Ahead leaving just the 158. Every route in Redbridge is also Stagecoach or Go Ahead apart from the 66, 150 and 123, although notable mention here is Sullivan on the 549. Havering I would say might be the odd one out on this part of East London, with Arriva being slightly more dominant than Go Ahead but both get dwarfed by Stagecoach's huge operation. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 10, 2023 18:02:09 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. Much of West London is a three way battleground between Metroline, Abellio and RATP. Further into North West London, say in Harrow, it feels a lot more Metroline dominated with a few RATP routes too. |
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Post by JUNIOR26 on Jun 10, 2023 18:51:13 GMT
Brent mostly Metroline.
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Post by VMH2537 on Jun 10, 2023 19:07:41 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. Haringey as well similar to Enfield has Arriva taking the majority. Notebly there's Metroline on the western parts of the borough as we reach towards Muswell Hill and Highgate. Go Ahead still retains a portion of routes across the borough. |
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Post by LondonTransport_Central on Jun 10, 2023 19:14:26 GMT
My borough (Havering) is mostly dominated with Stagecoach routes, except a few!
Arriva (66, 103, 175, 248, 347, 370 and 375)
Go Ahead (5, 346, every school route except 674, which is a Stagecoach route)
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Post by B9TL205 on Jun 10, 2023 19:46:06 GMT
Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. Think all East London boroughs are mostly Stagecoach and Go Ahead ever since Stagecoach ate up LI and CT Plus. Every route in B&D is either Stagecoach or Go Ahead except the 66, 103, 325 and 175, and the 325 is going Go Ahead itself. Every route in Newham apart from the 325 and 158 are Stagecoach and Go Ahead, and the 325 is going to Go Ahead leaving just the 158. Every route in Redbridge is also Stagecoach or Go Ahead apart from the 66, 150 and 123, although notable mention here is Sullivan on the 549. Havering I would say might be the odd one out on this part of East London, with Arriva being slightly more dominant than Go Ahead but both get dwarfed by Stagecoach's huge operation. I would also mention many routes in and around the borough of Tower Hamlets being operated by either mainly Stagecoach or Go-Ahead now that HCT/Tower Transit operators have gone. Every single route in Bow apart from routes 108 and 276 are operated by Stagecoach now and all routes in Mile End are operated by Stagecoach apart from D7 (that and the 276 will become operated by Stagecoach this year anyway). |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jun 10, 2023 20:56:12 GMT
The merger of Stagecoach with HCT and TT has unfortunately led to less variance across East London. It's becoming mainly a duopoly of Go Ahead and Stagecoach with a small bit of Arriva which is unfortunately declining.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 10, 2023 21:13:54 GMT
The merger of Stagecoach with HCT and TT has unfortunately led to less variance across East London. It's becoming mainly a duopoly of Go Ahead and Stagecoach with a small bit of Arriva which is unfortunately declining. It wasn't a merger, it was a buyout of both TT and HCT by Stagecoach. Mergers have very different meanings to buyouts, a merger is more similar to what happened to TT and RATP. I don't think there's much wrong in the duopoly in East London for anything to be unfortunate. What's important to TfL is that a competitive environment is maintained and I'm sure everyone on here can agree that Stagecoach and GAL both manage to keep each other in check. Neither go too high with their bidding as the other will be lurking around. Likewise what's important to the passenger is that a good service is provided on routes, and at least with the loss of Tower Transit and decline of Arriva there's been a positive trend towards an improvement in service. I think the way this is moving, there's not going to be many (if any) small players left in the London market. We've lost Tower Transit, lost HCT and are now losing Sullivans over the next few years too. Uno is the only company left that is small. Going back further we had operators such as Quality Line and Metrobus who themselves got swallowed up by larger companies and slowly became more integrated within the larger company. Just a gloss over who we have left (% figures taken from LBR.net): Go Ahead - 25.57% Arriva - 17.7% Stagecoach - 16.82% Metroline - 15.92% RATP - 13.52% Abellio - 9.18% Sullivan - 0.8% Uno - 0.08% There doesn't seem to be much incentive for new players to enter the market, if anything it looks like TfL want big corporations and big corporations only operating their routes. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 10, 2023 22:46:38 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Lambeth also sees a small amount of Stagecoach services though they are usually only across small parts of it. The P4 probably punches the biggest hole into Lambeth between Brixton and where Herne Hill, Herne Hill Road, Red Post Hill & Denmark Hill all meet |
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Post by ronnie on Jun 11, 2023 3:38:55 GMT
Just for fun and interest. Which Boroughs are dominated by who? Eventhough privatisation has increased competition in some areas - some have become almost a monopoly of one operator. I'll start of with my area. Croydon - Arriva, Abellio and Go-Ahead all seem to have a decent share with the odd stagecoach route. I would say Croydon was at one point a focal point of the Arriva empire but seems to have opened up a bit more now. Sutton - almost all Go-Ahead. Merton - almost all Go-Ahead. Bromley - Go-Ahead and Stagecoach. Lambeth - again a mix of Abellio, Go-Ahead and Arriva. Arriva losing a lot of work in an old stronghold. Greenwich is mostly Stagecoach and GAL. Arriva has a few routes at various corners - 202, 335, B15, 301, 401, 99, 229 - but no through ones Bexley is also mostly Stagecoach and GAL with arriva having a few services as well - B15, 301, 401, 99, 229, 269, 428, 492 |
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Post by kmkcheng on Jun 11, 2023 8:06:53 GMT
Enfield is mostly Arriva with some Metroline East London boroughs like Waltham Forest, Redbridge, Newham especially are dominated by Stagecoach and Go Ahead Ealing is predominantly Abellio whilst Hounslow, Richmond and Kingston have mostly RATP. Much of West London is a three way battleground between Metroline, Abellio and RATP. Further into North West London, say in Harrow, it feels a lot more Metroline dominated with a few RATP routes too. Harrow and Brent is completely Metroline and RATP and now there’s one less competitor as X is now part of RATP. The only routes that I can think of that ain’t either is Arriva’s 340 (but soon to be lost to RATP), GAL’s 36 and 232 and Sullivan’s school routes but these may disappear by the sound of what Dean Sullivan has said recently. UNO will join the party when they take over a number of school routes (628, 653, 683 & 688) although they already operate in the area with their commercial 614 |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 11, 2023 20:06:51 GMT
Much of West London is a three way battleground between Metroline, Abellio and RATP. Further into North West London, say in Harrow, it feels a lot more Metroline dominated with a few RATP routes too. Harrow and Brent is completely Metroline and RATP and now there’s one less competitor as X is now part of RATP. The only routes that I can think of that ain’t either is Arriva’s 340 (but soon to be lost to RATP), GAL’s 36 and 232 and Sullivan’s school routes but these may disappear by the sound of what Dean Sullivan has said recently. UNO will join the party when they take over a number of school routes (628, 653, 683 & 688) although they already operate in the area with their commercial 614 Yes RATP massively benefited from Arriva giving up their London work at Garston. I wish first were around as some parts of West and North West London feel too Metroline dominated without much else. |
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Post by cardinal on Jun 12, 2023 10:26:06 GMT
Harrow and Brent is completely Metroline and RATP and now there’s one less competitor as X is now part of RATP. The only routes that I can think of that ain’t either is Arriva’s 340 (but soon to be lost to RATP), GAL’s 36 and 232 and Sullivan’s school routes but these may disappear by the sound of what Dean Sullivan has said recently. UNO will join the party when they take over a number of school routes (628, 653, 683 & 688) although they already operate in the area with their commercial 614 Yes RATP massively benefited from Arriva giving up their London work at Garston. I wish first were around as some parts of West and North West London feel too Metroline dominated without much else. Although the 142 and shortly , the 251,223 & H17 will be Metroline. Whatever inroads ratp made into NW London are diminshing back in favour of dominant Metroline. |
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