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Post by george on Jul 13, 2019 20:11:28 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 13, 2019 20:13:30 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30 Metroline never had a deal with Wrightbus, however they did have a deal with Volvo. By the looks of it they seem to be free to choose whoever bodies the vehicle.
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Post by george on Jul 13, 2019 20:15:02 GMT
I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30 Metroline never had a deal with Wrightbus, however they did have a deal with Volvo. By the looks of it they seem to be free to choose whoever bodies the vehicle. Oh ok, I had a feeling it was Wrightbus
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Post by rj131 on Jul 13, 2019 20:42:17 GMT
I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30 Metroline never had a deal with Wrightbus, however they did have a deal with Volvo. By the looks of it they seem to be free to choose whoever bodies the vehicle. Don’t quote me on this but didn’t Metroline have some sort of ‘contract’ with Wrightbus to produce their vehicles which they subsequently terminated because of the poor quality of the Gemini 3 bodywork? Obviously the deal Metroline have (or had, don’t know if it’s still going or not) with Volvo couldn’t be applied with the electrics as Volvo doesn’t make an electric bus/chassis/battery pack or what have you, which is why they had to look elsewhere with these electrics
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Post by rhys on Jul 13, 2019 22:21:56 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! I was excited to see the Abellio interior on an Enviro 200 EV, as well as one door Enviro 200 EVs for the P5. Its good we're finally getting some variety though. This reminds me of when Metroline abaonded Wrightbus. I remember my jaw dropped a mole when I heard that news but Abellio abandoning Alexander Dennis is more surprising imo. It could just be a blip, after all other operators have a preferred manufacturer but do occasionally buy from the said manufacturer's rivals. If we get a new range of vehicles thanks to Abellio then that'll be cool. Ironically the other day I was joking with a friend that to be an engineer at WL would be much easier than opposite door neighbour Q as at WL there aren't many types to learn how to repair compared to at other garages. If Abellio did order the BYD E200EVs, for the P5. They certainly would not be one door. They would’ve been dual doored.
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Post by rif153 on Jul 13, 2019 22:58:24 GMT
I was excited to see the Abellio interior on an Enviro 200 EV, as well as one door Enviro 200 EVs for the P5. Its good we're finally getting some variety though. This reminds me of when Metroline abaonded Wrightbus. I remember my jaw dropped a mole when I heard that news but Abellio abandoning Alexander Dennis is more surprising imo. It could just be a blip, after all other operators have a preferred manufacturer but do occasionally buy from the said manufacturer's rivals. If we get a new range of vehicles thanks to Abellio then that'll be cool. Ironically the other day I was joking with a friend that to be an engineer at WL would be much easier than opposite door neighbour Q as at WL there aren't many types to learn how to repair compared to at other garages. If Abellio did order the BYD E200EVs, for the P5. They certainly would not be one door. They would’ve been dual doored. Sorry my bad I had Anton's video of a one door bus on the P5 in mind but now I realise the route is able to take, and runs with, longer buses
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Post by ServerKing on Jul 14, 2019 22:42:54 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! I was excited to see the Abellio interior on an Enviro 200 EV, as well as one door Enviro 200 EVs for the P5. Its good we're finally getting some variety though. This reminds me of when Metroline abaonded Wrightbus. I remember my jaw dropped a mole when I heard that news but Abellio abandoning Alexander Dennis is more surprising imo. It could just be a blip, after all other operators have a preferred manufacturer but do occasionally buy from the said manufacturer's rivals. If we get a new range of vehicles thanks to Abellio then that'll be cool. Ironically the other day I was joking with a friend that to be an engineer at WL would be much easier than opposite door neighbour Q as at WL there aren't many types to learn how to repair compared to at other garages. For years, Arriva have bought Wrightbus products... from 2001 with the first B7TL Volvo's down to today's hybrid HV's. But for single decker it's mostly ADL... but outside London it's more ADL after preferred chassis manufacturers VDL have nothing that's Euro6. Hoping it's something different to Wrightbus B5LH's for the 34 order as it's too samey, but I am not so sure about the build quality of MCV. Unless Wrightbus use the bigger Citaro engine for their integral hybrid, I hope Arriva buy ADL deckers. I quite like the look of the modern Nimbus, most passengers will not care for looks, just if the buses are fine for the C10 / P5
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Post by M1104 on Jul 14, 2019 23:46:14 GMT
I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30 Metroline never had a deal with Wrightbus, however they did have a deal with Volvo. By the looks of it they seem to be free to choose whoever bodies the vehicle. Very much like with Go-Ahead
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Post by M1104 on Jul 14, 2019 23:56:41 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! Abellio did have a two-year deal with ADL, perhaps this has now ended? Another possibility could be that they may still go for ADL with the deckers, which I hope will be the case for the 270 with the micro hybrid MMC deckers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 0:15:56 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! Talk about exaggeration, bloody hell mate. I'm sure Tfl are pushing operators to go for alternatives to the BYD. I also think its a positive move as this prevents ADL from determining the prices in the market and drives up the competition this quite tender market. The 20cm difference isn't really much of one, what you'd probably find is there will be no loss in capacity. Also, the Levantes aren't poorly built, I think you find it actually depends on the chassis and the operator, the Go North East examples are actually decent. The ADL deal as I understand isn't an exclusivity deal, I think a certain percentage of orders would have to be from ADL but of course, I sense Tfl are behind this in some way. We don't know what goes on behind the scenes as to why Abellio have chosen Caetano, maybe ADL is hitting capacity for the Electrics, they have had multiple orders from around the country. These Ceatanos aren't the worst looking thing either, I quite like them, they just look different. We always ask for something new and when it comes, we loathe it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 0:17:22 GMT
Where on earth do I start with this. I’m surprised Abellio of all operators deviated from ADL. I thought ADL had a deal with Abellio which meant they got cheaper buses, surely this deal meant Abellio would exclusively order ADL products to get cheaper rates? Maybe when ADL was sold over the pond the new owners decided this deal was no more, OR Abellio wasn’t happy with the rates they offered so decided to see what they could get elsewhere? Must have done. This now throws into question what double deckers the 270 will get!! Who knows what that could get now! Now to the elephant in the room. What on EARTH are those ABSOLUTE MONSTROSITIES?!?!?!?!? 😱😱😱 I’ve never seen anything so absolutely disgusting looking in my whole life, I was praying Abellio wouldn’t go for that Yutong they trialled because of how ugly it was but my god this is ten times worse! I have no words I’m actually shocked. I’ve criticised heavily how awful and mismatched the rear of the Optare Olympus and MetroDecker looked but my god compared to the front of these buses! Obviously I’ll reserve judgment on the quality of the bus until I go on one next year, but I’m not holding out much hope if the shocking build quality of their Cartano Levante coaches are anything to go by ...... My poor C10 😢🤮 and the last thing the C10 needs is a capacity downgrade, these are a bit smaller than the 10.9 MMCs on there currently. Also on another note I’m surprised the C10 is only getting 24 vehicles for a PVR of 22, they’re going to be pretty stuck if there’s a vehicle shortage as there’ll be no other compliant vehicles to run on the route! I think everyone thought Metroline had struck a deal with Wrightbus until the ordered MCVs for the 30 That deal was with Volvo only. ADL and Volvo have not collaborated very well with the B5LH, hence why there aren't any more and will probably be none in the future.
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Post by snowman on Jul 15, 2019 5:37:14 GMT
If there is an exclusivity deal with ADL, it is likely to have some clauses that cover things like unable to deliver in time, which allows orders to go elsewhere.
The other thing is look at Abellio’s orders in 2019, not a lot, and if they are going to qualify for a discount, probably got to place a minimum volume per year.
Any exclusivity deal may not be worth continuing, especially if the Portuguese have offered a good deal (I have no idea what the relative prices are compared to an E200EV )
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Post by M1199 on Jul 15, 2019 17:35:05 GMT
With Armstrong Way vehicles being given GW garage codes over the weekend, I wonder whether TF & WS vehicles will receive codes in due course.
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Post by rj131 on Jul 16, 2019 22:22:00 GMT
Can’t believe I’m actually about to say this but I’ve actually really started to warm to the Caetano ECity, let alone as quickly as I have done. Seeing pictures of it in various liveries on the continent, it does actually look really modern, and pictures of the interior look really good too. Very bright and airy like the E200 MMC, so I can definitely see the Abellio interior suiting it very well. I can definitely see the looks of this ECity being an acquired taste. I think it was just the initial shock as I’m pretty sure the vast majority of us thought it was a dead cert Abellio would just go for the BYD/MMC. I do actually think it’s good that there’ll now be a bit more variety in London, particularly with a brand new bus manufacturer and model, definitely shaking things up a bit. I do completely hold my hands up and admit that I did ‘exaggerate’ a bit as put by a fellow member I do still hold my initial reservations about what the overall build quality of the vehicle will be like, but just like my initial skepticism of the 207 changeover being completely proved wrong, I won’t knock it until I’ve seen it and hope I’ll be proved wrong.
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Post by allentc on Jul 17, 2019 6:53:05 GMT
The Caetano bus is certainly not the prettiest but I'm all for introducing some variety to the London scene rather than the ubiquitous ADL or Wrightbus offerings that are found everywhere.
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