Plan to bring TfL Buses into Public Ownership

[ThinLizzy]

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

[Eastlondoner62]

The bright side is we won't get anymore 'when is the next tender result' questions.

[southlondon413]

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

But he could do this now without the need to win an election. TfL become directly responsible for staff, routes, management etc. It feels like a bit of hodgepodge poorly thought out response to Labour making a national election pledge.

I think TfL should seek to take more control over the bus network and could certainly work better to implement control schemes and a singular network interior/exterior identity closely linked to the rest of the TfL network. But why target private companies on the bus network when TfL networks like the DLR, Tram and now the Cable Car are run by private companies?

[evergreenadam]

Haven’t they done this before in a small way by having a wholly owned TfL bus operator in the form of East Thames Buses?

Will we go back to Cardinal, Wandle and Forest? Just like the previous 30 years didn’t happen?

[yunus]

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

Elaborate please - I am lost, what does public ownership mean in this case? All TFL Buses are run by private companies tho e.g Stagecoach.

[ThinLizzy]

Apr 11, 2024 18:43:27 GMT yunus said:

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

Elaborate please - I am lost, what does public ownership mean in this case? All TFL Buses are run by private companies tho e.g Stagecoach.

I'm going by what the Tweet said. I'd assume it would be something similar to Greater Manchester and what's proposed for Liverpool and other areas.

I don't think it will be a full scale Lothian-style public ownership

[evergreenadam]

Apr 11, 2024 18:18:09 GMT southlondon413 said:

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

But he could do this now without the need to win an election. TfL become directly responsible for staff, routes, management etc. It feels like a bit of hodgepodge poorly thought out response to Labour making a national election pledge.

I think TfL should seek to take more control over the bus network and could certainly work better to implement control schemes and a singular network interior/exterior identity closely linked to the rest of the TfL network. But why target private companies on the bus network when TfL networks like the DLR, Tram and now the Cable Car are run by private companies?

Very true, there is certainly an element of wanting to be seen to fit in with the national Labour policy even though London is starting from a different position.

[billa]

If it means a return to controllers standing at Victoria or Stokey giving departures for 8 hours daily I'm sold. Defiantly would be a pricy endeavour for TFL to buy out all the operators their vehicles, properties and staff and set up their own operations

[WH241]

I always expected something like this to happen but thought it would be further down the line once the fleet is fully electric. The recent issue with tenders being handed back has probably accelerated this.

I know it's not a done deal and might not even happen but one thing I would welcome is a standard consistent interior along the lines of the old HCT or the TfL style used on the Stagecoach Electroliners.

[markyl]

If you watch the video the Labour MP indicates the London model is what they would role out across the county

[TB123]

tangytango.proboards.com/post/803097

All I'll say is....I told you so! 😉

This has been coming for a while now - sheer market forces at play increasingly making private sector contracting impractical.

The way I interpret this is direct publicly-owned operation like East Thames Buses or even the LT of old. Legislative changes make direct award operation possible now.

[redexpress]

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

Roger Wright might like a word with him about the name he's chosen for this new company...

[matthieu1221]

Apr 11, 2024 18:18:09 GMT southlondon413 said:

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

But he could do this now without the need to win an election. TfL become directly responsible for staff, routes, management etc. It feels like a bit of hodgepodge poorly thought out response to Labour making a national election pledge.

I think TfL should seek to take more control over the bus network and could certainly work better to implement control schemes and a singular network interior/exterior identity closely linked to the rest of the TfL network. But why target private companies on the bus network when TfL networks like the DLR, Tram and now the Cable Car are run by private companies?

I actually think the 'visible' changes perceived by passengers would end up being quite low. Everything is very unified under a single bus network already in passengers' eyes, certainly compared to those in Manchester who are experiencing a small revolution of sorts.

I do think it'll be useful on several points:

- consultation to implementation of changes will be quicker

- flexibility in fleet/staff (re)deployment as needed (would also be possible with zonal tendering like Manchester + Singapore)

- better and more appropriate metrics for performance -- and less profit led operation patterns as a result (less inflated timetables so less dawdling along and hitting every light)

- (I'm being optimistic on this one) proper coordination between routes where appropriate (not running 211 and 11 with simultaneous departures as a 'permanent' example, better mitigation that a traffic accident could have on one route by boosting frequencies on another which perhaps is less affected yet run together on a certain stretch for a 'temporary' example)

Despite being in favour of everything being in house (barring perhaps the tourist attraction that is the danglebahn), I think it makes some sense to keep them run privately as rail is a run on a more long-term basis thing as opposed to the frequent changes which may happen on the bus network.

[matthieu1221]

Apr 11, 2024 19:57:43 GMT markyl said:

If you watch the video the Labour MP indicates the London model is what they would role out across the county

The press release on their website makes it a little clearer as to what Khan wants to role out:

1. Empower local transport authorities and reform funding: by giving local leaders more control and flexibility over bus funding and allowing them to plan ahead to deliver their local transport priorities.

2. Allow every community to take back control of their buses:by removing barriers that currently limit bus franchising powers only to metro mayors.

3. Accelerate the bus franchising process: by supporting local leaders to deliver better buses, faster.

4. Step in to safeguard local bus networks: by providing more accountability over bus operators and ensuring standards are raised wherever you live across the country.

5. Support public ownership: by removing the Conservatives’ ideological ban on publicly owned bus companies and building on the success of award-winning public bus services still in operation.

labour.org.uk/updates/press-releases/labour-promises-to-allow-every-community-to-take-back-control-of-local-bus-services/

So the London model everywhere and allowing publicly owned bus companies where there is a political will for it.

[MetrolineGA1511]

Apr 11, 2024 18:43:27 GMT yunus said:

Apr 11, 2024 18:08:32 GMT ThinLizzy said:

Not sure if this should go into "Buses in the News" or the Tender folder, or even in "Off-Route", so please move if needed

Sadiq Kahn has tweeted that if he is re-elected as Mayor he will work establish a London Bus Company, bringing services into Public Ownership

Elaborate please - I am lost, what does public ownership mean in this case? All TFL Buses are run by private companies tho e.g Stagecoach.

It is also odd that they refer to "bringing services into public ownership".  The services have been in public ownership for decades.  It is just the operation that moved progressively into assorted private hands from 1985 to 1994.