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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 25, 2019 11:35:27 GMT
Since the route branding at Hayes and Barking (correct me if I’m wrong) are trials will the results of route branding trials be released? Will route branding be phased in? When will the route branding be phased in? No idea No idea No idea TfL have said absolutely nothing about any of this. I get the impression that they've lost interest in it but can't be bothered to actually remove the branding from buses and from stops as well as reversing the appallingly bad redesign of spider maps. Strikes me as one of those things they were forced to do by the Mayor but didn't really want to do and now the Mayor isn't bothered either so there's no follow up or close out. I also suspect that whoever "owned" the project has been reorganised into another post or has left TfL. Buses have lost 20% of their staff (over 110 people) so far this financial year (in the recent TfL Board Papers). Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction.
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Post by lonmark on Jan 25, 2019 20:35:27 GMT
I would love to have four part of London Bus Map like TfL used to have South East, South West, North East and North West bus map poster at every shelter bus stop.
I hope next Mayor will restore it back to London bus maps where it is easy for us to look up at it or have one in pockets etc.
So yes like you say TfL have no money left at all.
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Post by ronnie on Jan 25, 2019 21:46:52 GMT
No idea No idea No idea TfL have said absolutely nothing about any of this. I get the impression that they've lost interest in it but can't be bothered to actually remove the branding from buses and from stops as well as reversing the appallingly bad redesign of spider maps. Strikes me as one of those things they were forced to do by the Mayor but didn't really want to do and now the Mayor isn't bothered either so there's no follow up or close out. I also suspect that whoever "owned" the project has been reorganised into another post or has left TfL. Buses have lost 20% of their staff (over 110 people) so far this financial year (in the recent TfL Board Papers). Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction. I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it
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Post by snoggle on Jan 25, 2019 22:18:47 GMT
I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it I think London's attempt at branding has been poor - not just now but often in the past too. Only a couple of livery based schemes worked - the 19 with Kentish Bus and 159 with South London. They were clear, consistent and noticeable. On a smaller scale in the early days you can argue the 24 "stood out" when Grey Green took over because of the livery but there was also small scale via point branding too. I think it depends what you're trying to do. Many private bus companies in deregulation land do branding well but it's a complete package and often with nicely specced buses. In short there's something worth "selling" to the public via a brand. TfL just thinks a few via points and big numbers slapped on entirely normal, untouched vehicles equals "branding". Well no because what are you selling? The same bus service that it was before the stickers were applied! If nothing is better then there's no point in trying to sell it. TfL can't even be bothered to actively tell people when a route or routes in an area get brand new buses and, to be fair, we've had a lot of those in recent years. If TfL's aim is to keep the bus service as a fairly dull and rudimentary service with no real positives then branding is an utter waste of money. If they were to do properly upgrade the service across many aspects then there would be something worth shouting about but there's no sign of that happening at all. On that basis bin the branding and revert to how things were.
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Post by Green Kitten on Jan 25, 2019 22:23:53 GMT
Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction. I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it I don’t think the branding was effective enough, especially in the case of the Hayes scheme. People know about how prominent the bus is in all corners of London. Advertising a bus as running ‘up to every 30 minutes’ is not really an effective way to advertise a service, especially in a place as fast-paced and bustling as Greater London. Use the roadspace more effectively to make bus journeys quicker at the most critical times - and advertise that - that’s something to ‘sell’. Bums on seats, etcetera.
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Post by Green Kitten on Jan 25, 2019 22:36:46 GMT
No idea No idea No idea TfL have said absolutely nothing about any of this. I get the impression that they've lost interest in it but can't be bothered to actually remove the branding from buses and from stops as well as reversing the appallingly bad redesign of spider maps. Strikes me as one of those things they were forced to do by the Mayor but didn't really want to do and now the Mayor isn't bothered either so there's no follow up or close out. I also suspect that whoever "owned" the project has been reorganised into another post or has left TfL. Buses have lost 20% of their staff (over 110 people) so far this financial year (in the recent TfL Board Papers). Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction. I am not a fan of the new spider maps personally for this very reason. Take the Ilford map for instance. The 86, 128 and 296 serve Romford, and are all separate lines that go in different directions: apparently there are three ‘Romfords’ North-East, North and South of Ilford according to the map. The 169 and 366 to Barking do not meet at all. The 86, 128, 145 and 150 cross the 364’s route at some point but there is no indication of this from the map as they are all represented by distinct lines going in completely different directions. The loss of a geographic sense makes the maps very confusing for me and is in my opinion a poor design choice. The old maps captured everything a lot better (and are always fun to look at when you’re bored at a bus stop waiting for a bus). I think Mr. Beck was the inspiration to simplify these maps but they miss his point entirely - the classic 1933 tube map had both a sense of the geography of London and got the perfect balance between accurately representing the sense of location, and doing so in a simplistic, more abstract way.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 25, 2019 23:27:41 GMT
Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction. I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it If done properly, route branding works - provincial operators invest lots of money into branding so it can't be pointless in all fairness. I always recommend people do outer London journeys where you see a difference compared to TfL land and what operators do to attract patronage, including the use of branding.
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Post by busaholic on Jan 26, 2019 0:04:30 GMT
I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it If done properly, route branding works - provincial operators invest lots of money into branding so it can't be pointless in all fairness. I always recommend people do outer London journeys where you see a difference compared to TfL land and what operators do to attract patronage, including the use of branding. It was never 'branding' as such, but RM 1933's painting into a special Indian Red and Platinum livery in 2008, both to commemorate the 75th anniversary of London Transport's creation and the centenary of Bow depot/garage, should have been extended to all the other Routemasters on the 15H imo, really would have made the buses stand out and, perhaps, attract more use, which is the name of the game, supposedly.
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Post by sid on Jan 27, 2019 13:56:01 GMT
Regarding the Barkingside trial the 169s buses have all been de-branded upon refurbishment and 17979 is the only remaining 247 branded bus remaining and will be off soon as it's only hanging about as a refurb float. I'm also expecting the 275s buses to lose their branding as those buses are also due to be refurbished over the next few months. I'm assuming Arriva won't be debranding their vehicles for a while as despite the 150s buses undergoing a refurbishment as we speak the buses branded for the route are the 368s ones so probably won't be touched for a while. I imagine the 128s buses will be removed upon the new contract in October. The awful spider maps are what bugs me personally. It's a complete pain to find out anything. For example if you were looking at the Barking one wanting to get to Chadwell Heath you'd have no idea that the 62 and 368 both go there as on the map itself they do not cross over as the 62 leaves Barking to the North while the 368 leaves to the south. The 368 then proceeds to end at some non existent stop called "Wangey Lane" The 62 also has a part where it splits from the 5 then crosses it, the area on the map provided for it is so small it's squashes all the stops into a small space and makes it look awful. Then we have the obvious issue where apparently Oxford Circus and Rainham are both in the same direction. I think I always find the bus route branding somewhat pointless to be honest. Must have been the bright idea of some consultant who had worked earlier in branding commodity type items!!! I mean with the number of routes, fleet allocations etc, there is no point in tying up a bus on one particular route. And of course trying to get 100+ unique colours is kind of pointless. The biggest branding is that all buses are red! Just run the buses on time, have proper bus priority, and that is pretty much it Whenever I visit places like Nottingham and Reading I can't help thinking how bland and uninspiring buses in London look by comparison. Allover red and single line destination blinds are reminiscent of the NBC era back in the 70s, the bus industry outside of London has long since moved on. I gather bus usage on Nottingham City Transport is on the increase suggesting that they are doing something right and you really don't need 100+ unique colours!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 21:13:02 GMT
RE Woolwich Ferry testing, what routes could be extended over the river using it and also is it reliable enough to provide a bus service...
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Post by VPL630 on Jan 27, 2019 21:15:00 GMT
RE Woolwich Ferry testing, what routes could be extended over the river using it and also is it reliable enough to provide a bus service... It would never work
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 21:18:15 GMT
RE Woolwich Ferry testing, what routes could be extended over the river using it and also is it reliable enough to provide a bus service... It would never work i agree... it creates so much traffic and also there is never a full, good service running.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 21:22:30 GMT
i agree... it creates so much traffic and also there is never a full, good service running. It's funny I thought there would be traffic gridlock when the ferry closed but not seen or heard of any major issues. The opening date was even pushed back until Feb 19 without any major backlash.
Makes you wonder if the ferry could have been closed and the money used elsewhere on a crossing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 21:25:55 GMT
i agree... it creates so much traffic and also there is never a full, good service running. It's funny I thought there would be traffic gridlock when the ferry closed but not seen or heard of any major issues. The opening date was even pushed back until Feb 19.
Makes you wonder if the ferry could have been closed and the money used elsewhere on a crossing.
Yep absolutely no issues. a bridge would be easier but due to tall ships getting through (infact thats why the cable car is so high). ..
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Post by redbus on Jan 28, 2019 0:07:38 GMT
Since the route branding at Hayes and Barking (correct me if I’m wrong) are trials will the results of route branding trials be released? Will route branding be phased in? When will the route branding be phased in? No idea No idea No idea TfL have said absolutely nothing about any of this. I get the impression that they've lost interest in it but can't be bothered to actually remove the branding from buses and from stops as well as reversing the appallingly bad redesign of spider maps. Strikes me as one of those things they were forced to do by the Mayor but didn't really want to do and now the Mayor isn't bothered either so there's no follow up or close out. I also suspect that whoever "owned" the project has been reorganised into another post or has left TfL. Buses have lost 20% of their staff (over 110 people) so far this financial year (in the recent TfL Board Papers). I confess to not having read the TfL Board Papers and perhaps I should, but did I read you right as saying TfL buses have lost 20% of their staff? If so, either they were previously well overstaffed with many people doing little or nothing to add value, or with a 20% loss of staff they would be unable to do the job they should be doing. I fear it is the latter and that is not a good omen. There is unlikely to be 20% fat in an organisation, you'll hit bone with 20% cuts.
Back to route branding, I don't know the answers to the questions, but it seems to me that as others say it is being quietly dropped.
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