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Post by vjaska on Jun 27, 2019 13:26:14 GMT
It wouldn't of been rectified because Mercedes don't fit stop start to their buses so you would still of ended up with Streetlites - TfL moved the goalposts with their draconian rules. You mention the 293 - I don't think RATP would of ordered Citaros in any event personally. I think there are some urban myths going on The Citaro has Voith DIWA 6 gearboxes, these have the option of stop-start Voith DIWA start-stop linkThere is also optional ZF ecolife 6speed gearbox ZF Ecolife link and 6 AP 1600 BS variant has start-stop The Citaro, Citaro K and Citaro G specs are here, vast number of options, more than TfL have ever dreamt up, but old fashioned roller destination blinds are not an option Link to Citaro (right hand drive) specs www.busandcoachbuyer.com/mercedes-benz-citaro-hybrid/There's a paragraph about half way down where it is stated they don't offer stop start along with an explanation why.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 13:43:13 GMT
I don't see anything draconian about stop/start, other bus manufacturers have incorporated it and so have Mercedes-Benz in their cars. I'm doubtful whether Citaros would have been ordered anyway, they're pretty few and far between in the UK and their reliability is questionable. A few things: I didn't say stop start was draconian - I said TfL's rules and moving the goalposts was which is two completely different things There are plenty of Citaros in the UK - they're not as numerous as Enviros or Streetlites buts it's more than just 'few & far between' Their reliability isn't questionable just because the 227's batch had some issues. TfL are entitled to specify whatever they want, I don't see how it can be called moving goalposts. Other operators have had similar reliability issues with Citaros.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 27, 2019 13:57:34 GMT
It wouldn't of been rectified because Mercedes don't fit stop start to their buses so you would still of ended up with Streetlites - TfL moved the goalposts with their draconian rules. You mention the 293 - I don't think RATP would of ordered Citaros in any event personally. I think there are some urban myths going on The Citaro has Voith DIWA 6 gearboxes, these have the option of stop-start Voith DIWA start-stop linkThere is also optional ZF ecolife 6speed gearbox ZF Ecolife link and 6 AP 1600 BS variant has start-stop The Citaro, Citaro K and Citaro G specs are here, vast number of options, more than TfL have ever dreamt up, but old fashioned roller destination blinds are not an option Link to Citaro (right hand drive) specsCertainly not a myth, as Mercedes have stated many times that they will not offer stop-start on buses as they do not think it is suitable for service bus operation (vjaska has linked to one of the quotes above, and they have repeated this on other occasions). The fact that the gearbox itself can offer stop-start doesn't mean anything; the gearbox is just one part of the system, and if the bus isn't designed for stop-start the gearbox won't do it in isolation.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2019 20:16:48 GMT
If retained, what will happen to the 108 citaros next tender? Most likely withdrawn, you should read the chat, someone has already said that Citaros are banned from being ordered to TFL aren’t going to be happy keeping them in are they regardless of their age...... " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png">
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Post by 10121ddo on Jun 27, 2019 20:38:43 GMT
If retained, what will happen to the 108 citaros next tender? Most likely withdrawn, you should read the chat, someone has already said that Citaros are banned from being ordered to TFL aren’t going to be happy keeping them in are they regardless of their age...... " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png"> I don’t involve myself in this, but “read the chat” - there’s 1369 pages... I find myself parroting someone else from a couple months/pages ago very often - it’s just a forum
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Post by Londonbuses54 on Jun 27, 2019 20:54:03 GMT
If retained, what will happen to the 108 citaros next tender? Most likely withdrawn, you should read the chat, someone has already said that Citaros are banned from being ordered to TFL aren’t going to be happy keeping them in are they regardless of their age...... " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png"> I don’t know if it was meant to come across this way, but I do read the chat. If the buses are existing why would they be ‘ordered’ I never mentioned new buses. No existing buses have to have stop start installed, if that’s possible anyway. Apologies if it wasn’t meant that way
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Post by dennistas on Jun 28, 2019 21:28:47 GMT
The tenders today now proven that:
191 and 192 leave NP both going to Arriva
67, 106 & 230 move in which should make the PVR higher at the garage.
To be honest I could see Go Ahead allocating the 106 to SI, we'll see. Guess the routes will receive new vehicles potentially new EHs.
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Post by dennistas on Jun 28, 2019 21:29:37 GMT
Is the 208 definitely gonna run from MB? Heard drivers talking that it may run from NX!
The EHs will suit the route imo
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Post by Londonbuses54 on Jun 28, 2019 21:45:36 GMT
Is the 208 definitely gonna run from MB? Heard drivers talking that it may run from NX! The EHs will suit the route imo They have already been delivered, so I doubt it
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Post by rif153 on Jun 28, 2019 21:49:01 GMT
The tenders today now proven that: 191 and 192 leave NP both going to Arriva 67, 106 & 230 move in which should make the PVR higher at the garage. To be honest I could see Go Ahead allocating the 106 to SI, we'll see. Guess the routes will receive new vehicles potentially new EHs. Its amazing to see GAL doing well in North London depsite Arriva having the lion's share of garages there. I would argue NP are going up in the world gaining three higher profile routes than the two which are leaving. NP are really on a roll with the 67, 106, 212, 214, 230, 232, and 444 all coming to the garage in the near future. I haven't done the maths but I it certainly looks as if they've taken on more work than they've lost, remember they did lose the 20 months back and even before the 20 tender result was announced they knew they were getting the 214. I'll be interested to see how much of an issue space at NP poses, the most logical candidate to move would be the 76 to Q
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Post by george on Jun 28, 2019 22:16:55 GMT
The tenders today now proven that: 191 and 192 leave NP both going to Arriva 67, 106 & 230 move in which should make the PVR higher at the garage. To be honest I could see Go Ahead allocating the 106 to SI, we'll see. Guess the routes will receive new vehicles potentially new EHs. Its amazing to see GAL doing well in North London depsite Arriva having the lion's share of garages there. I would argue NP are going up in the world gaining three higher profile routes than the two which are leaving. NP are really on a roll with the 67, 106, 212, 214, 230, 232, and 444 all coming to the garage in the near future. I haven't done the maths but I it certainly looks as if they've taken on more work than they've lost, remember they did lose the 20 months back and even before the 20 tender result was announced they knew they were getting the 214. I'll be interested to see how much of an issue space at NP poses, the most logical candidate to move would be the 76 to Q Brilliant to see NP win so much work after all their recent loses. Garages winning work after losing so much is always good it's why I hope 25 is won by WH and 282 and 482 are won by AV
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Post by george on Jun 28, 2019 22:33:07 GMT
Does anyone else think that go ahead are now regretting even bidding for the 209. Or is it just that any win is a win and it doesn't matter if the route isn't well used?
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Post by YY13VKP on Jun 28, 2019 22:41:16 GMT
Does anyone else think that go ahead are now regretting even bidding for the 209. Or is it just that any win is a win and it doesn't matter if the route isn't well used? What a nonsensical comment to make. Why would any company “regret bidding for a route” when one of the aims for an operator is to win as many routes as they can?
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Post by kmkcheng on Jun 28, 2019 22:43:43 GMT
Does anyone else think that go ahead are now regretting even bidding for the 209. Or is it just that any win is a win and it doesn't matter if the route isn't well used? Just as long it will make them some sort of profit they won’t regret it
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Post by george on Jun 28, 2019 22:44:42 GMT
Does anyone else think that go ahead are now regretting even bidding for the 209. Or is it just that any win is a win and it doesn't matter if the route isn't well used? What a nonsensical comment to make. Why would any company “regret bidding for a route” when one of the aims for an operator is to win as many routes as they can? I made the comment as a route not well used is more likely to be scrapped. Why are some people on here so rude. I may as well not say anything.
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