|
Post by bottomless on Jan 20, 2020 12:52:37 GMT
Yes. It’s not an SP!!!
|
|
|
Post by snowman on Jan 20, 2020 13:24:27 GMT
Does anyone have any factual info about the quickest accelerating London bus in the past 5 years? Haven't got any facts, but would think it was the Citaro-K based on power-weight ratio However some of the electric buses probably quicker off the line due to high torque of electric motors
|
|
|
Post by rebbelhead on Jan 20, 2020 16:02:14 GMT
Does anyone have any factual info about the quickest accelerating London bus in the past 5 years? Haven't got any facts, but would think it was the Citaro-K based on power-weight ratio However some of the electric buses probably quicker off the line due to high torque of electric motors Sorry, this isn't factual either, but from personal experience the acceleration of the OMEs on the 134 is amazing. They remind me of the trolleybuses I used along the Great North Road as a kid. I'm not sure whether the BYDs on the 43 are quite as agile - they have always been bogged down in traffic when I go on them. Interestingly, i travelled on Optare's diesel Metrodecker demonstrator in Sheffield a couple of years ago, and that was very quick off the mark too ... and it has the same engine as the Streetdeck. Admittedly it was only half-loaded at the time. Power to weight ratio is not necessarily much of a guide to road performance - the torque characteristices of the engine, design and settings of the gearbox and the back axle ratio will all have a profound effect. A good example were the RTs in the 1950s/60s - most Green (country area) RTs had a higher back axle ratio than the red ones - lower acceleration but a higher top speed (and they could shift!!).
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Jan 20, 2020 18:14:49 GMT
Possibly not, but when I drove SP1 I felt like I'd be hard pushed to find a bus that could reach 50mph more quickly! Though if measuring to lower speeds others would beat it! Need a metric to make a meaningful comparison. The MAN 14.240s with the MCV bodywork were rockets. Quite possibly the fastest to 30mph but would not win any records for acceleration between 0 and 10mph as they were restricted up to about 8mph! A healthy DB300 or a dreaded ZF E200 would beat it to 10mph but not to 30mph.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 20, 2020 18:33:28 GMT
Does anyone have any factual info about the quickest accelerating London bus in the past 5 years? You would be unlikely to get a true figure due to bus manufacturers and authorites do not want to glamorise speeding. Only top speed seems to be published. Most you would only get a reliable 0-30mph, 0-60mph some may not do down to speed limitations or gearing. Various trade magazines do publish their own test data of this. It is also a hard determination where you have different gearbox or engine combinations.
|
|
|
Post by VPL630 on Jan 21, 2020 9:34:36 GMT
Does anyone have any factual info about the quickest accelerating London bus in the past 5 years? You would be unlikely to get a true figure due to bus manufacturers and authorites do not want to glamorise speeding. Only top speed seems to be published. Most you would only get a reliable 0-30mph, 0-60mph some may not do down to speed limitations or gearing. Various trade magazines do publish their own test data of this. It is also a hard determination where you have different gearbox or engine combinations.
Also the factor that every single bus drives differently, some are really punchy some are just dead
|
|
|
Post by hangerlane on Jan 21, 2020 9:44:30 GMT
Haven't got any facts, but would think it was the Citaro-K based on power-weight ratio However some of the electric buses probably quicker off the line due to high torque of electric motors Sorry, this isn't factual either, but from personal experience the acceleration of the OMEs on the 134 is amazing. They remind me of the trolleybuses I used along the Great North Road as a kid. I'm not sure whether the BYDs on the 43 are quite as agile - they have always been bogged down in traffic when I go on them. Interestingly, i travelled on Optare's diesel Metrodecker demonstrator in Sheffield a couple of years ago, and that was very quick off the mark too ... and it has the same engine as the Streetdeck. Admittedly it was only half-loaded at the time. Power to weight ratio is not necessarily much of a guide to road performance - the torque characteristices of the engine, design and settings of the gearbox and the back axle ratio will all have a profound effect. A good example were the RTs in the 1950s/60s - most Green (country area) RTs had a higher back axle ratio than the red ones - lower acceleration but a higher top speed (and they could shift!!). I don't think the last statement is true. Many RTs were painted green, but the bus versions had the same ratios as the red ones. The Green Line ones were actually branded as Green Line, including cast Green Line roundels with no adverts These buses were fitted with higher ratio differential, and were used on the 721, 722 and 723 services out through East London to Romford and beyond. Standard green buses and standard red buses were be used as Green Line extras. Green Line RTs could also be used on standard routes if necessary, I suspect mainly in the Grays/Tilbury area. In later years the Green Line buses were probably downgraded to ordinary buses, and some were probably painted red. There are at least 3 of the buses preserved; whether these have the higher ratio, I don't know.
|
|
|
Post by rebbelhead on Jan 21, 2020 14:35:50 GMT
Sorry, this isn't factual either, but from personal experience the acceleration of the OMEs on the 134 is amazing. They remind me of the trolleybuses I used along the Great North Road as a kid. I'm not sure whether the BYDs on the 43 are quite as agile - they have always been bogged down in traffic when I go on them. Interestingly, i travelled on Optare's diesel Metrodecker demonstrator in Sheffield a couple of years ago, and that was very quick off the mark too ... and it has the same engine as the Streetdeck. Admittedly it was only half-loaded at the time. Power to weight ratio is not necessarily much of a guide to road performance - the torque characteristices of the engine, design and settings of the gearbox and the back axle ratio will all have a profound effect. A good example were the RTs in the 1950s/60s - most Green (country area) RTs had a higher back axle ratio than the red ones - lower acceleration but a higher top speed (and they could shift!!). I don't think the last statement is true. Many RTs were painted green, but the bus versions had the same ratios as the red ones. The Green Line ones were actually branded as Green Line, including cast Green Line roundels with no adverts These buses were fitted with higher ratio differential, and were used on the 721, 722 and 723 services out through East London to Romford and beyond. Standard green buses and standard red buses were be used as Green Line extras. Green Line RTs could also be used on standard routes if necessary, I suspect mainly in the Grays/Tilbury area. In later years the Green Line buses were probably downgraded to ordinary buses, and some were probably painted red. There are at least 3 of the buses preserved; whether these have the higher ratio, I don't know. Hmmm, you've got me thinking
|
|
|
Post by rebbelhead on Jan 21, 2020 14:50:29 GMT
I don't think the last statement is true. Many RTs were painted green, but the bus versions had the same ratios as the red ones. The Green Line ones were actually branded as Green Line, including cast Green Line roundels with no adverts These buses were fitted with higher ratio differential, and were used on the 721, 722 and 723 services out through East London to Romford and beyond. Standard green buses and standard red buses were be used as Green Line extras. Green Line RTs could also be used on standard routes if necessary, I suspect mainly in the Grays/Tilbury area. In later years the Green Line buses were probably downgraded to ordinary buses, and some were probably painted red. There are at least 3 of the buses preserved; whether these have the higher ratio, I don't know. Hmmm, you've got me thinking Oops posted that much too soon! I grew up with the back axle info as common knowledge, and I'm asking myself why. Definitely I am referring to country buses, not the Greenlines (incidentally a second batch of the Greenline ones had only transfers as the 'tween decks logo, not the castings). I am 100% sure that contemporary information was that the country ones had the different axle ratio, though I totally recognise that the division between green and red ones seemed fairly arbitrary even when delivered, yet alone once overhauls and other requirements shuffled the pack somewhat. However, a quick glance at more recent books etc does not confirm the position one way or the other. The reason I have always been pretty certain this was true though was my own experience. In my child & early teen days we had both red and green RTs locally - the latter being various batches mostly from Garston and Hatfield. When walking or cycling up the slight incline from the terminus I found I could always predict whether it was a red or green one approaching me from behind, by the subtly different engine note. I'm not saying it never failed, but I was right well over 90% of the time. Awfully nerdy but there you are! Sorry, deviating from the original question in the thread, but if anyone else can throw any light???
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Jan 21, 2020 20:59:31 GMT
Hmmm, you've got me thinking Oops posted that much too soon! I grew up with the back axle info as common knowledge, and I'm asking myself why. Definitely I am referring to country buses, not the Greenlines (incidentally a second batch of the Greenline ones had only transfers as the 'tween decks logo, not the castings). I am 100% sure that contemporary information was that the country ones had the different axle ratio, though I totally recognise that the division between green and red ones seemed fairly arbitrary even when delivered, yet alone once overhauls and other requirements shuffled the pack somewhat. However, a quick glance at more recent books etc does not confirm the position one way or the other. The reason I have always been pretty certain this was true though was my own experience. In my child & early teen days we had both red and green RTs locally - the latter being various batches mostly from Garston and Hatfield. When walking or cycling up the slight incline from the terminus I found I could always predict whether it was a red or green one approaching me from behind, by the subtly different engine note. I'm not saying it never failed, but I was right well over 90% of the time. Awfully nerdy but there you are! Sorry, deviating from the original question in the thread, but if anyone else can throw any light??? Having only just come to this thread, and just off the top of my head, you mentioned Hatfield garage, which was the only country area one to ever be allocated RTLs i.e. with Leyland chassis and, more pertinently, Leyland engines which, indeed, could be differentiated by sound from the RT (AEC) version. The Leyland version was much throatier, but this may not be what you had in mind.
|
|
|
Post by rebbelhead on Jan 22, 2020 10:24:28 GMT
Oops posted that much too soon! I grew up with the back axle info as common knowledge, and I'm asking myself why. Definitely I am referring to country buses, not the Greenlines (incidentally a second batch of the Greenline ones had only transfers as the 'tween decks logo, not the castings). I am 100% sure that contemporary information was that the country ones had the different axle ratio, though I totally recognise that the division between green and red ones seemed fairly arbitrary even when delivered, yet alone once overhauls and other requirements shuffled the pack somewhat. However, a quick glance at more recent books etc does not confirm the position one way or the other. The reason I have always been pretty certain this was true though was my own experience. In my child & early teen days we had both red and green RTs locally - the latter being various batches mostly from Garston and Hatfield. When walking or cycling up the slight incline from the terminus I found I could always predict whether it was a red or green one approaching me from behind, by the subtly different engine note. I'm not saying it never failed, but I was right well over 90% of the time. Awfully nerdy but there you are! Sorry, deviating from the original question in the thread, but if anyone else can throw any light??? Having only just come to this thread, and just off the top of my head, you mentioned Hatfield garage, which was the only country area one to ever be allocated RTLs i.e. with Leyland chassis and, more pertinently, Leyland engines which, indeed, could be differentiated by sound from the RT (AEC) version. The Leyland version was much throatier, but this may not be what you had in mind. Many thanks for that thought but no, these were definitely all AECs. I did say a subtle difference in engine note - to my mind the Leylands created an unmissable raucous din ! (though that was far less unpleasant than the low-pitched throb of the Leyland-engined RMs delivered new to the 134 in 1964).
It's difficult to describe quite what I mean - perhaps best would be to consider a car in top gear encountering a hill and the engine beginning to labour before you change down - the engine note becomes lower and sounds like it is stressing a little. This happened up a gentle incline, with the red RTs having marginally higher revs and less straining. That's probably as clear as mud!Hatfield's RTLs didn't last long. I think they came and went before my cycling days, and given their evident unpopularity it's possible they spent most of their time on local routes rather than the trunk 303 & associated routes that came to New Barnet - although that is just speculation and most pictures I've seen indeed shows them on the 303.
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Jan 22, 2020 13:13:52 GMT
Having only just come to this thread, and just off the top of my head, you mentioned Hatfield garage, which was the only country area one to ever be allocated RTLs i.e. with Leyland chassis and, more pertinently, Leyland engines which, indeed, could be differentiated by sound from the RT (AEC) version. The Leyland version was much throatier, but this may not be what you had in mind. Many thanks for that thought but no, these were definitely all AECs. I did say a subtle difference in engine note - to my mind the Leylands created an unmissable raucous din ! (though that was far less unpleasant than the low-pitched throb of the Leyland-engined RMs delivered new to the 134 in 1964).
It's difficult to describe quite what I mean - perhaps best would be to consider a car in top gear encountering a hill and the engine beginning to labour before you change down - the engine note becomes lower and sounds like it is stressing a little. This happened up a gentle incline, with the red RTs having marginally higher revs and less straining. That's probably as clear as mud!Hatfield's RTLs didn't last long. I think they came and went before my cycling days, and given their evident unpopularity it's possible they spent most of their time on local routes rather than the trunk 303 & associated routes that came to New Barnet - although that is just speculation and most pictures I've seen indeed shows them on the 303. I thought you didn't mean RTLs, but worth a try.. I had no personal experience of them at Hatfield, but have seen photos of them on the 341 too: as you say, they weren't popular with drivers from all I've read. Just before the 108B was converted to opo I travelled up Westcombe Hill in Greenwich on an RT and it sounded just like an RTL which had previously graced the hill on the 108/A. I seriously wondered for a minute or two if it had had a transplant.
|
|
|
Post by rebbelhead on Jan 22, 2020 13:51:48 GMT
Many thanks for that thought but no, these were definitely all AECs. I did say a subtle difference in engine note - to my mind the Leylands created an unmissable raucous din ! (though that was far less unpleasant than the low-pitched throb of the Leyland-engined RMs delivered new to the 134 in 1964).
It's difficult to describe quite what I mean - perhaps best would be to consider a car in top gear encountering a hill and the engine beginning to labour before you change down - the engine note becomes lower and sounds like it is stressing a little. This happened up a gentle incline, with the red RTs having marginally higher revs and less straining. That's probably as clear as mud!Hatfield's RTLs didn't last long. I think they came and went before my cycling days, and given their evident unpopularity it's possible they spent most of their time on local routes rather than the trunk 303 & associated routes that came to New Barnet - although that is just speculation and most pictures I've seen indeed shows them on the 303. I thought you didn't mean RTLs, but worth a try.. I had no personal experience of them at Hatfield, but have seen photos of them on the 341 too: as you say, they weren't popular with drivers from all I've read. Just before the 108B was converted to opo I travelled up Westcombe Hill in Greenwich on an RT and it sounded just like an RTL which had previously graced the hill on the 108/A. I seriously wondered for a minute or two if it had had a transplant. Yes, worth a try indeed, thank you - but yay! I have found some info. Ken Blacker's definitive RT book (Capital Transport 1979) says "the decision [to put heaters in the entire country fleet] ... coincided with the wholesale conversion of axle ratios on all green RTs from the standard 5.16:1 to 4.57:1" (I have decimalised the figures for clarity). This caused them to be redesignated (from whatever?) to 2/3RT until the heaters were fitted, when they became 1/3RTs. This was the same classification as the existing Greenline RTs, which thus presumably already had the non-standard axles. This was 1960 - the same year that the extra Greenline fleet was created (the 28 with the transfers rather than cast roundels). Assuming they were already green the only difference would have been the new logos and repainting the cream band to light green! It was also the year the 18 RTLs went to Hatfield, so some momentous changes in the green fleet. The RTLs lasted there only from July 1960 to June 1961. Apparently they had been overhauled and painted green as early as 1959, and stored while they tried to get agreement for them to be used somewhere. As you say, they were not liked...
|
|
|
Post by WSD3 on Jan 22, 2020 18:58:24 GMT
LF69UXJ was last seen in service on 3rd January. I wonder if this is bus is at Northumberland Park as it has not been in service for a while now.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 23, 2020 0:11:57 GMT
You would be unlikely to get a true figure due to bus manufacturers and authorites do not want to glamorise speeding. Only top speed seems to be published. Most you would only get a reliable 0-30mph, 0-60mph some may not do down to speed limitations or gearing. Various trade magazines do publish their own test data of this. It is also a hard determination where you have different gearbox or engine combinations.
Also the factor that every single bus drives differently, some are really punchy some are just dead It would also be best test when new from factory as most are virtually the same then.
|
|