|
Post by WH241 on Apr 13, 2024 11:51:54 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. 1993 was huge for Newham! New routes like the 300,308, 325 and 330 and the end of routes like the 162. Other big changes were the splitting of the 173 into two routes with the new 473. The 108 was also cut back from Wanstead the same time. 2003 was also the start of converting Routemster routes to OPO.
|
|
|
Post by abellion on Apr 13, 2024 12:15:32 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. There were quite a few changes in 1991, especially on May 25th. The 44 cut to Vauxhall and replaced by the new 344, the 49 replaced by the new 249 to Crystal Palace, the 270 introduced to replace parts of the 219/220/280, the 219/355 swapping termini, the 265 taking on the Tolworth end of the 72 and many more.
|
|
|
Post by mkay315 on Apr 13, 2024 12:41:53 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. 1993 was huge for Newham! New routes like the 300,308, 325 and 330 and the end of routes like the 162. Other big changes were the splitting of the 173 into two routes with the new 473. The 108 was also cut back from Wanstead the same time. 2003 was also the start of converting Routemster routes to OPO. That was a big one and to think it's more or less stayed the same until 2018 and 2022
|
|
|
Post by mkay315 on Apr 13, 2024 12:43:09 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. There were quite a few changes in 1991, especially on May 25th. The 44 cut to Vauxhall and replaced by the new 344, the 49 replaced by the new 249 to Crystal Palace, the 270 introduced to replace parts of the 219/220/280, the 219/355 swapping termini, the 265 taking on the Tolworth end of the 72 and many more. Of course. How could I forget the 1991 changed that occurred
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Apr 13, 2024 12:58:19 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. 2006 I believe was the last year of suffixes with the 77A becoming 87
|
|
|
Post by mkay315 on Apr 13, 2024 13:45:10 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. 2006 I believe was the last year of suffixes with the 77A becoming 87 Oh yeah I forgot about that
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Apr 13, 2024 15:32:03 GMT
I don't believe that's how all loops work, the 62 as a loop around what is now becoming Weavers Quarter but passengers cannot stay on the loop. You can see this on all the spider maps where the 62 has a dead end on them, but the route itself doesn't. I think there are 2 different things. There are some routes (e.g. 62 as you mentioned; also the 11, R1, 174, 175, 193, 247 and I am sure there are lots more!) which terminate in a one-way loop hence you need to get off. In contrast there are some routes with only a hesitation point where the destination changes and you can stay on (e.g.: 138, 499, R5, R8, R10, B12, B13, B15 and a fair number more!). The 488 seems to be an exception to the former H2 and H3 as well. H2 operates as a very large one-way loop with a short two-way stub at the Golders Green end and I am not sure if it even has a hesitation point (if it does, it is probably Market Place on Falloden Way). The H3 has a hesitation point on the Brim Hill loop.
|
|
|
Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 13, 2024 17:50:32 GMT
I'd be interested to see how this would work with RPI checks for instance as I was under the impression that the system reset at each end, wiping out records of taps of the previous journey? Is there a special arrangement for these routes on the technical side?
I'm not sure that the ticket machine is involved when it comes to RPI checks - I haven't any personal involvement with it, but would expect that the gadget the RPI's carry can show when and where the card was last tapped in. That's what shows up on the journey history online if you have an Oyster card (so it's not wiped off the central system at the end of each journey) - I don't know if it records (and lets RPI see) things like bus fleet number and / or journey number as well.
There are a few routes with a loop terminus and a 'hesitation point' where the bus 'officially' changes from the journey from A to B in to the journey from B to A but passengers can and do travel on journeys that cross the 'terminus' point.
The first one that comes to mind is route B15, where there's a loop round the Horn Park Estate, west of Eltham, but the 'terminus' is the first stop on the estate (although the second stop on the loop), so anyone travelling from the Bexleyheath direction to a stop further round the estate will technically be travelling on two 'journeys' on a single 'tap' but that's how loop terminus arrangements work.
I was under the impression that the RPI synced/tapped (?) their inspection device to the Oyster reader when boarding to then enable them to match up the data between that and the cards checked? AFAIK the RPI machine just shows whether a card is valid or not, not the actual journeys. My memory may be failing me so may not be entirely accurate here but it was underscored previously the importance of tapping in every time, even when Hopper applies (in addition to TfL getting more accurate passenger numbers) because of this as the RPI wouldn't be able to see that you'd tapped in on a different bus.
Yes the taps are not wiped because it gets sent to the back office or whatever but if I understood correctly it's done after each journey -- so taps from a previous journey aren't still registered on the ticket machine. Oyster-wise the journey history thing also takes up to 24 hours to get processed whilst it's much faster on contactless so I don't think the RPI machines really on that as it'd not be real-time enough.
|
|
|
Post by Eastlondoner62 on Apr 13, 2024 17:53:12 GMT
I'm not sure that the ticket machine is involved when it comes to RPI checks - I haven't any personal involvement with it, but would expect that the gadget the RPI's carry can show when and where the card was last tapped in. That's what shows up on the journey history online if you have an Oyster card (so it's not wiped off the central system at the end of each journey) - I don't know if it records (and lets RPI see) things like bus fleet number and / or journey number as well.
There are a few routes with a loop terminus and a 'hesitation point' where the bus 'officially' changes from the journey from A to B in to the journey from B to A but passengers can and do travel on journeys that cross the 'terminus' point.
The first one that comes to mind is route B15, where there's a loop round the Horn Park Estate, west of Eltham, but the 'terminus' is the first stop on the estate (although the second stop on the loop), so anyone travelling from the Bexleyheath direction to a stop further round the estate will technically be travelling on two 'journeys' on a single 'tap' but that's how loop terminus arrangements work.
I was under the impression that the RPI synced/tapped (?) their inspection device to the Oyster reader when boarding to then enable them to match up the data between that and the cards checked? AFAIK the RPI machine just shows whether a card is valid or not, not the actual journeys. My memory may be failing me so may not be entirely accurate here but it was underscored previously the importance of tapping in every time, even when Hopper applies (in addition to TfL getting more accurate passenger numbers) because of this as the RPI wouldn't be able to see that you'd tapped in on a different bus.
Yes the taps are not wiped because it gets sent to the back office or whatever but if I understood correctly it's done after each journey -- so taps from a previous journey aren't still registered on the ticket machine. Oyster-wise the journey history thing also takes up to 24 hours to get processed whilst it's much faster on contactless so I don't think the RPI machines really on that as it'd not be real-time enough.
Oyster does show immediately in some cases, if you go to a ticket machine right after your taps it shows all the journeys no matter how long it has been. I'm not sure why there's a 24 hour delay showing it on your account though. The DLR PSAs at least have a newer machine which looks more like a phone than a ticket checker. I wonder if this displays more information on it?
|
|
|
Post by matthieu1221 on Apr 13, 2024 18:00:17 GMT
I was under the impression that the RPI synced/tapped (?) their inspection device to the Oyster reader when boarding to then enable them to match up the data between that and the cards checked? AFAIK the RPI machine just shows whether a card is valid or not, not the actual journeys. My memory may be failing me so may not be entirely accurate here but it was underscored previously the importance of tapping in every time, even when Hopper applies (in addition to TfL getting more accurate passenger numbers) because of this as the RPI wouldn't be able to see that you'd tapped in on a different bus.
Yes the taps are not wiped because it gets sent to the back office or whatever but if I understood correctly it's done after each journey -- so taps from a previous journey aren't still registered on the ticket machine. Oyster-wise the journey history thing also takes up to 24 hours to get processed whilst it's much faster on contactless so I don't think the RPI machines really on that as it'd not be real-time enough.
Oyster does show immediately in some cases, if you go to a ticket machine right after your taps it shows all the journeys no matter how long it has been. I'm not sure why there's a 24 hour delay showing it on your account though. The DLR PSAs at least have a newer machine which looks more like a phone than a ticket checker. I wonder if this displays more information on it? I think it's because on a ticket machine it reads the information on your card. If RPIs had machines that could do that -- they'd be able to see it too.
On the Oyster website it has to have first gone through to the back office and processed there (that's also when corrections are made nowadays -- for example lower caps + extension fares rather than your fares counting for a higher cap because you travelled out of a cheaper zone -- similar to what contactless does automatically when they deduct fares once at the end of the business day).
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 13, 2024 19:33:33 GMT
Don’t you just hate it when the driver is making a diversion announcement, but you can’t hear it because of foreigners shouting into their mobile phones! On my overnight coach from Manchester to London I had a foreign passenger ignore the driver request and spend most of the time to Birmingham chatting on his phone Behaviour like this has reduced me from an avid Remainer to a mild Remainer but never mind. My visit to London was not for a bus trip as such but to clear more stuff from my brother's flat. A round trip from his flat to a charity shop and coffee afterwards took me on routes 31, 70 & 228. What struck me, completely unrelated to this, was Pick of the Pops starting with 1978. This is not even because that was my first Easter Monday out on London buses. 1978 had been on Pick on the Pops on February 10th, my Saturday out on the buses then but also Steve Wright's final Pick of the Pops before the shock news that he died just a few days later.
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 13, 2024 19:36:51 GMT
Any reason why the route 194 is so indirect from Penge to west Croydon? I was on the route the other day to get to Croydon and it took a good hour to get from Penge to Croydon. However the 75 and 197 only take around 20 min to get to Croydon from Penge. It's how the 194 has always been and it's remained largely unchanged over the years. I remember being fascinated by the routeing of route 194 as long ago as 1977 when Capital Radio was on 194m on Medium Wave
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 13, 2024 19:50:19 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. These were indeed big events for London buses. The others in the 21st century have been electric buses first scheduled in 2016 for single-decks (routes 507/521) and 2019 for double-decks (routes 43/134).
|
|
|
Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 13, 2024 19:53:13 GMT
Hi folks So something really came to my head about some particular years and how major changes occurred in that year. So let's start with 1992, I think that year was a big change involving a lot of Central London buses where a lot of diversions and splits occurred. 1993 was the Newham changes, 1994 was when the privatisation occurred. 1999 now this one and 2003 (I'll come to that in a bit) was a very big one. It involved the Jubilee line extension, the DLR extension. The low floor revolution was really taking it's foothold from this point 2000 the tramlink and Croydon bus changes 2003 was the year the congestion charge was introduced along with some new routes, 30th August 2003 being a famous date for a lot of bus changes on that day. Some in South London, others in East London. 2005 being the last year that step entrance buses were allowed to roam the streets of London 2010 being the last year that the overlapping service was the norm 2011 being the year that the roundels came back onto the London buses and bendy buses being removed from the London streets 2014 being the year of the bus and the time being displayed on the buses. 2019 the Central London bus changes again!! That's all I can think of from the top of my head If there's anymore please feel free to add some. 1993 was huge for Newham! New routes like the 300,308, 325 and 330 and the end of routes like the 162. Other big changes were the splitting of the 173 into two routes with the new 473. The 108 was also cut back from Wanstead the same time. 2003 was also the start of converting Routemster routes to OPO. Only those long-term crew routes. A few Routemaster routes had gone opo in the 1970s to enable RM/RMLs to replace RTs. RM withdrawals had commenced in 1982 but stalled in 1994, apart from route 139 in 1998, until 2003-05 when remaining RM/RMLs were phased out, apart from the tourist route which met an intended demise in 2019.
|
|
|
Post by abellion on Apr 14, 2024 19:16:37 GMT
Does anybody know how the 123, 158 and 486 night services are faring?
IIRC the 486 was one of the least busy weekend night services in numbers and it runs into the N1, N53 and N89 so without the night tube on weeknights I wonder how much demand it caters for.
|
|