|
Post by rambo on Jan 24, 2019 21:09:52 GMT
Same old same old, freezing buses........
|
|
|
Post by galwhv69 on Jan 24, 2019 21:12:29 GMT
I know that I'm repeating this over and over again but it bugs me so much! Was on a group visit to Imperial College going via Chelsea,Battersea etc. and the amount of buses with broken/stuck blinds is appaling.Even in the posh areas where its all fancy,diesel buses with broken blinds rumbling past! I don't think buses can sense if they in posh areas lol,I was meaning that buses that are allocated to routes going past posh places should make sure they have working blinds or residents may want no buses near their area
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2019 21:15:19 GMT
I don't think buses can sense if they in posh areas lol,I was meaning that buses that are allocated to routes going past posh places should make sure they have working blinds or residents may want no buses near their area I was just joking but to be honest I doubt many of them would use the buses blinded or not
|
|
|
Post by galwhv69 on Jan 24, 2019 21:17:09 GMT
lol,I was meaning that buses that are allocated to routes going past posh places should make sure they have working blinds or residents may want no buses near their area I was just joking but to be honest I doubt many of them would use the buses blinded or not Yeah but "snobby" residents can be really picky and all that
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Jan 24, 2019 22:33:59 GMT
Took a ride on VW1383 today on route 186. Interestingly, halfway down the A41 a call came through from the NMCC advising the driver to stop at the next bus stop and check the tax disc and operators license etc. The dreaded "... to help even out the service" announcement was played, then the iBus switched off for a while as we all waited. The driver had a look and reported to control that there were no licenses, and the controller advised to just continue to Brent Cross, finish the journey, then return out of service back to the garage. The "...bus is ready to depart" announcement played (only heard that twice in my life ) and off we went. Interesting how this whole situation came about to be honest. Did the driver not check before taking the bus out? How did the NMCC know? Is a bus even allowed to be in service without the tax disc and license? n.b. The bus in question is now in service on the 140, presumably after returning to Harrow Weald to have the discs inserted. A bus cannot legally carry fare paying passengers without having an O licence disk on display. I recently alerted a driver on the 321 that his bus didn't have an O licence on display and he genuinely believe it wasn't necessary. Controllers and senior management who should know better have been known to tell drivers it's ok to continue in service without an O licence disk. In the bus world you have to be very careful whose advice you trust. In the driving grade, it is a compulsory requirement of the job to be able to resist being bullied into doing illegal things. I've even heard a controller say that if a driver is too weak to have a backbone then that is their problem!
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Jan 24, 2019 22:54:23 GMT
Took a ride on VW1383 today on route 186. Interestingly, halfway down the A41 a call came through from the NMCC advising the driver to stop at the next bus stop and check the tax disc and operators license etc. The dreaded "... to help even out the service" announcement was played, then the iBus switched off for a while as we all waited. The driver had a look and reported to control that there were no licenses, and the controller advised to just continue to Brent Cross, finish the journey, then return out of service back to the garage. The "...bus is ready to depart" announcement played (only heard that twice in my life ) and off we went. Interesting how this whole situation came about to be honest. Did the driver not check before taking the bus out? How did the NMCC know? Is a bus even allowed to be in service without the tax disc and license? n.b. The bus in question is now in service on the 140, presumably after returning to Harrow Weald to have the discs inserted. A bus cannot legally carry fare paying passengers without having an O licence disk on display. I recently alerted a driver on the 321 that his bus didn't have an O licence on display and he genuinely believe it wasn't necessary. Controllers and senior management who should know better have been known to tell drivers it's ok to continue in service without an O licence disk. In the bus world you have to be very careful whose advice you trust. In the driving grade, it is a compulsory requirement of the job to be able to resist being bullied into doing illegal things. I've even heard a controller say that if a driver is too weak to have a backbone then that is their problem! I am probably in a very small minority but I have my passenger hat on. As a passenger it is completely unacceptable to be tipped out of a bus mid-route. One can understand such things if a bus breaks down, but quite frankly a bus without an o-licence should never have been let out in the first place and the passengers on the bus should not suffer due to what I can only call incompetence. I accept it wasn't legal to continue - any more than it was legal to get that far - but completing the journey assuming the bus was safe to drive was not completely unreasonable, or am I mistaken?
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Jan 24, 2019 23:34:16 GMT
I am probably in a very small minority but I have my passenger hat on. As a passenger it is completely unacceptable to be tipped out of a bus mid-route. One can understand such things if a bus breaks down, but quite frankly a bus without an o-licence should never have been let out in the first place and the passengers on the bus should not suffer due to what I can only call incompetence. I accept it wasn't legal to continue - any more than it was legal to get that far - but completing the journey assuming the bus was safe to drive was not completely unreasonable, or am I mistaken? If the bus doesn't have an O licence in it, it's usually because the engineers have removed it so that it doesn't go out. Often when the bus has a serious problem that hasn't been fully rectified. This is not a failsafe and some drivers still take the bus out without one - those drivers probably don't do any safety checks at all. It is NOT safe to drive a bus where it has been removed and if this is brought to a driver's attention they should stop the bus immediately. If you don't like being tipped off a bus, try being on one that has caught fire, or had fumes from a leaking fuel tank fill the saloon - both of which have happened on buses that turned out not to be carrying O licences.
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Jan 25, 2019 0:05:10 GMT
I am probably in a very small minority but I have my passenger hat on. As a passenger it is completely unacceptable to be tipped out of a bus mid-route. One can understand such things if a bus breaks down, but quite frankly a bus without an o-licence should never have been let out in the first place and the passengers on the bus should not suffer due to what I can only call incompetence. I accept it wasn't legal to continue - any more than it was legal to get that far - but completing the journey assuming the bus was safe to drive was not completely unreasonable, or am I mistaken? If the bus doesn't have an O licence in it, it's usually because the engineers have removed it so that it doesn't go out. Often when the bus has a serious problem that hasn't been fully rectified. This is not a failsafe and some drivers still take the bus out without one - those drivers probably don't do any safety checks at all. It is NOT safe to drive a bus where it has been removed and if this is brought to a driver's attention they should stop the bus immediately. If you don't like being tipped off a bus, try being on one that has caught fire, or had fumes from a leaking fuel tank fill the saloon - both of which have happened on buses that turned out not to be carrying O licences. Points taken, which is why I said assuming it was safe to drive.
What has left me near speechless is that such a bus could have gone out on the road in the first instance.
|
|
|
Post by 6HP502C on Jan 25, 2019 0:17:25 GMT
Points taken, which is why I said assuming it was safe to drive. What has left me near speechless is that such a bus could have gone out on the road in the first instance. It's a very, very serious error on the first driver's part. Management often hit the roof when after a broken down bus has been called in, it is noted that the bus has no O licence in it. Unless checked with all possible engineers who might know about the bus' recent history, it can't be assumed it is safe to drive a bus in service without an O licence. With one fire incident, the axle got hotter and hotter and it didn't become apparent there was a problem until smoke was spotted coming from the wheel in the mirror - on inspection, the axle was bright orange with flames licking inside the wheel - and the bus had no O licence in it. If it has been removed, there could be anything wrong with the bus. The driver doesn't know if a wheel might fall off or the suspension might collapse or glass might come smashing to the ground and so on. Some of these things can't be foreseen by someone without the engineers professional knowledge which is why the bus should be stopped. Controllers need to take calculated risks in order to protect the company profits but any who encourages a driver to continue with passengers without an O licence probably wants a good talking to.
|
|
|
Post by rj131 on Jan 25, 2019 0:38:44 GMT
Points taken, which is why I said assuming it was safe to drive. What has left me near speechless is that such a bus could have gone out on the road in the first instance. It's a very, very serious error on the first driver's part. Management often hit the roof when after a broken down bus has been called in, it is noted that the bus has no O licence in it. Unless checked with all possible engineers who might know about the bus' recent history, it can't be assumed it is safe to drive a bus in service without an O licence. With one fire incident, the axle got hotter and hotter and it didn't become apparent there was a problem until smoke was spotted coming from the wheel in the mirror - on inspection, the axle was bright orange with flames licking inside the wheel - and the bus had no O licence in it. If it has been removed, there could be anything wrong with the bus. The driver doesn't know if a wheel might fall off or the suspension might collapse or glass might come smashing to the ground and so on. Some of these things can't be foreseen by someone without the engineers professional knowledge which is why the bus should be stopped. Controllers need to take calculated risks in order to protect the company profits but any who encourages a driver to continue with passengers without an O licence probably wants a good talking to. For a novice like me, what is an O licence? I figured out it’s something to do with roadworthiness, but does it actually look and what is the criteria for a bus having an O licence revoked?
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Jan 25, 2019 0:40:38 GMT
Points taken, which is why I said assuming it was safe to drive. What has left me near speechless is that such a bus could have gone out on the road in the first instance. It's a very, very serious error on the first driver's part. Management often hit the roof when after a broken down bus has been called in, it is noted that the bus has no O licence in it. Unless checked with all possible engineers who might know about the bus' recent history, it can't be assumed it is safe to drive a bus in service without an O licence. With one fire incident, the axle got hotter and hotter and it didn't become apparent there was a problem until smoke was spotted coming from the wheel in the mirror - on inspection, the axle was bright orange with flames licking inside the wheel - and the bus had no O licence in it. If it has been removed, there could be anything wrong with the bus. The driver doesn't know if a wheel might fall off or the suspension might collapse or glass might come smashing to the ground and so on. Some of these things can't be foreseen by someone without the engineers professional knowledge which is why the bus should be stopped. Controllers need to take calculated risks in order to protect the company profits but any who encourages a driver to continue with passengers without an O licence probably wants a good talking to. One observation from what you've said. Surely there *has* to be a more effective method of identifying a bus that should NOT under any circumstances be taken out in service than removing an "O" licence disc? It seems a faintly ludicrous thing to have to rely on especially as the practice doesn't seem that consistent in the first place. It strikes me as a much more important safety initiative that should be consistent across all operators than most of the utter nonsense that is in the latest TfL Board Papers as "bus safety improvements". It seems it's more important to speed limit buses or have them bleep at gormless pedestrians than making sure there is a clear, consistent way to prevent potentially unsafe buses being put into service or drivers being put in the position of illegality due to paper discs being missing (even accepting there is a clear checking regime for the first driver of the bus on any given day). As for there not being consistent engineering info about the state of any bus in the garage that's even more worrying. You should never be reliant on a single person for anything in a multi shift, complex engineering environment. Records should be clear, consistent, accurate and accessible to all relevant personnel on any shift. I'd have expected the bus companies to have got that one sorted a hell of a long time ago - it's a no brainer. I know, I know - I'm a naive loon and "Money, money, money" is all that matters.
|
|
|
Post by bottomless on Jan 25, 2019 2:44:10 GMT
On this I have to say that this should have been picked up in the first driver’s pre service check. Where I work this forms part of a printed check list that has to be carried out before the bus leaves the garage, and this is then signed by the first driver of the day. As this is a legal document the driver is therefore open to both disciplinary action and also legal prosecution if he or she has not carried this out properly. As a controller I would have instructed the driver to wait for the next bus, transfer passengers and then return the bus to the garage out of service if the engineers deemed the bus was safe to be driven back. I would also expect the driver to be seen by management to explain how this had happened. Safety has to be paramount bearing in mind how much damage could be caused by something this big that could be carrying the best part of a hundred people. There is no excuse.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2019 7:53:07 GMT
It's a very, very serious error on the first driver's part. Management often hit the roof when after a broken down bus has been called in, it is noted that the bus has no O licence in it. Unless checked with all possible engineers who might know about the bus' recent history, it can't be assumed it is safe to drive a bus in service without an O licence. With one fire incident, the axle got hotter and hotter and it didn't become apparent there was a problem until smoke was spotted coming from the wheel in the mirror - on inspection, the axle was bright orange with flames licking inside the wheel - and the bus had no O licence in it. If it has been removed, there could be anything wrong with the bus. The driver doesn't know if a wheel might fall off or the suspension might collapse or glass might come smashing to the ground and so on. Some of these things can't be foreseen by someone without the engineers professional knowledge which is why the bus should be stopped. Controllers need to take calculated risks in order to protect the company profits but any who encourages a driver to continue with passengers without an O licence probably wants a good talking to. One observation from what you've said. Surely there *has* to be a more effective method of identifying a bus that should NOT under any circumstances be taken out in service than removing an "O" licence disc? It seems a faintly ludicrous thing to have to rely on especially as the practice doesn't seem that consistent in the first place. It strikes me as a much more important safety initiative that should be consistent across all operators than most of the utter nonsense that is in the latest TfL Board Papers as "bus safety improvements". It seems it's more important to speed limit buses or have them bleep at gormless pedestrians than making sure there is a clear, consistent way to prevent potentially unsafe buses being put into service or drivers being put in the position of illegality due to paper discs being missing (even accepting there is a clear checking regime for the first driver of the bus on any given day). As for there not being consistent engineering info about the state of any bus in the garage that's even more worrying. You should never be reliant on a single person for anything in a multi shift, complex engineering environment. Records should be clear, consistent, accurate and accessible to all relevant personnel on any shift. I'd have expected the bus companies to have got that one sorted a hell of a long time ago - it's a no brainer. I know, I know - I'm a naive loon and "Money, money, money" is all that matters. At Go Ahead, we use Unfit plates (they are orange and go in the running plate holder to prevent the bus being assigned a running number) and bright yellow steering wheel covers to prevent the bus being driven.
|
|
|
Post by Pilot on Jan 25, 2019 9:33:44 GMT
People have to realize at least 30% of bus drivers don't do the full all-around bus check, most of them being oldschool and just making sure the wheels are there and ramp works that's it. One time I got laughed at by other driver for taking my checks so seriously checking for loose body panels and what not.
|
|
|
Post by DT 11 on Jan 25, 2019 10:19:41 GMT
People have to realize at least 30% of bus drivers don't do the full all-around bus check, most of them being oldschool and just making sure the wheels are there and ramp works that's it. One time I got laughed at by other driver for taking my checks so seriously checking for loose body panels and what not. These are the same kind of drivers who blame engineers for buses being not up to scratch. On many occasions taken over and found faults on buses that shouldn’t actually been in service and have had to report and take out of service to be repaired. Most ridiculous I’ve come across is broken glass allover the floor from not being swept up from smashed windows.
|
|