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Post by george on Aug 10, 2019 19:44:44 GMT
So I have a ADH on the 139, I pull upto Piccadilly Circus stop and two wheelchair users (husband and wife) want to board, I explain to them I am only auhtorised to carry one wheelchair. Then other passengers started having a go at me saying but there is plenty of space for two. So I again explained to them that I am not authorised to carry two wheelchairs and the space is only designed for one wheelchair etc etc and besides if I had a VH there would be no argument fullstop as they can only fit one wheelchair anyway. In the end they agreed to meet eachother at Waterloo. Interesting one. I read somewhere that Reading Buses have introduced buses that have two designated wheelchair spaces. As a matter of interest (to me, anyway) are any London buses allowed to carry two wheelchairs and their users and, supplementary question, if there really is room for two on some buses that aren't allowed to carry them, what is the rationale behind it? Genuine question, by the way, I'm not trying to make a 'political' point. The DLEs on the 391 have a huge wheelchair space so maybe they can take two?
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Post by galwhv69 on Aug 10, 2019 20:55:54 GMT
Interesting one. I read somewhere that Reading Buses have introduced buses that have two designated wheelchair spaces. As a matter of interest (to me, anyway) are any London buses allowed to carry two wheelchairs and their users and, supplementary question, if there really is room for two on some buses that aren't allowed to carry them, what is the rationale behind it? Genuine question, by the way, I'm not trying to make a 'political' point. The DLEs on the 391 have a huge wheelchair space so maybe they can take two? I think that it is a recent TFL (or maybe ADL actually?) spec for a large wheelchair space
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Post by Volvo on Aug 10, 2019 20:58:19 GMT
The DLEs on the 391 have a huge wheelchair space so maybe they can take two? I think that it is a recent TFL (or maybe ADL actually?) spec for a large wheelchair space It is to take 1 wheelchair and maybe 1 or 2 pushchairs. There is still only 1 backrest and 1 handrail for a wheelchair user to hold onto near the backrest.
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Post by redexpress on Aug 10, 2019 21:00:09 GMT
Interesting one. I read somewhere that Reading Buses have introduced buses that have two designated wheelchair spaces. As a matter of interest (to me, anyway) are any London buses allowed to carry two wheelchairs and their users and, supplementary question, if there really is room for two on some buses that aren't allowed to carry them, what is the rationale behind it? Genuine question, by the way, I'm not trying to make a 'political' point.
I think a designated wheelchair space has to have a backrest and now one of those armrest / arm supports. So even if it appears that there is room for two wheelchairs, there isn't room for two "proper" wheelchair spaces.
The Darts that Thorpes used on the shortlived 705 (replacement for part of the Stationlink service) had at least two official wheelchair spaces. In those days TfL still allowed tip-up seats in the wheelchair area so the overall seating capacity wasn't significantly affected.
The DLEs on the 391 have a huge wheelchair space so maybe they can take two? I believe the additional space is meant for buggies. The wheelchair capacity is still officially 1.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 10, 2019 21:11:35 GMT
I think that it is a recent TFL (or maybe ADL actually?) spec for a large wheelchair space It is to take 1 wheelchair and maybe 1 or 2 pushchairs. There is still only 1 backrest and 1 handrail for a wheelchair user to hold onto near the backrest. Thanks,I think you've answered the question to my satisfaction. Just on a personal note, was it likely that there'd only be a shortish wait for another 139 going through to Waterloo as scheduled? With all I read on here about turns and lack of immediate alternatives it must be extra daunting for people like that wheelchair couple to face a bus journey, particularly as they now know they're going to have to do it separately.
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Post by busoccultation on Aug 10, 2019 21:25:52 GMT
I think a designated wheelchair space has to have a backrest and now one of those armrest / arm supports. So even if it appears that there is room for two wheelchairs, there isn't room for two "proper" wheelchair spaces.
Don't think any of the Citaros in London have a backrest for the wheelchair user to use so it doesn't appear to be the case for where a backrest in the wheelchair bay is designated for a one wheelchair user.
Still, I recently managed to see a two wheelchair users board a same 425 in Ilford within one stop of each other, despite it being on a 24bph corridor to Stratford and a 86 was just one minute behind that 425 which will be following that 425 all the way to Startford.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 10, 2019 22:00:25 GMT
Interesting one. I read somewhere that Reading Buses have introduced buses that have two designated wheelchair spaces. As a matter of interest (to me, anyway) are any London buses allowed to carry two wheelchairs and their users and, supplementary question, if there really is room for two on some buses that aren't allowed to carry them, what is the rationale behind it? Genuine question, by the way, I'm not trying to make a 'political' point. The DLEs on the 391 have a huge wheelchair space so maybe they can take two? Newer ADL buses have longer wheelchair spaces. I think it may be ADL only though as I've seen on 68-reg Evosetis the wheelchair space still looks hopelessly small, whereas 68-reg MMCs have the longer wheelchair spaces. I think even with the longer space, buses may only still be licenced to carry one wheelchair but I haven't checked the specs.
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Post by Volvo on Aug 11, 2019 7:28:13 GMT
It is to take 1 wheelchair and maybe 1 or 2 pushchairs. There is still only 1 backrest and 1 handrail for a wheelchair user to hold onto near the backrest. Thanks,I think you've answered the question to my satisfaction. Just on a personal note, was it likely that there'd only be a shortish wait for another 139 going through to Waterloo as scheduled? With all I read on here about turns and lack of immediate alternatives it must be extra daunting for people like that wheelchair couple to face a bus journey, particularly as they now know they're going to have to do it separately. Yes the following 139 was 7 minutes behind and I notified the controller of the situation to let the bus behind know.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 11, 2019 10:14:22 GMT
Thanks,I think you've answered the question to my satisfaction. Just on a personal note, was it likely that there'd only be a shortish wait for another 139 going through to Waterloo as scheduled? With all I read on here about turns and lack of immediate alternatives it must be extra daunting for people like that wheelchair couple to face a bus journey, particularly as they now know they're going to have to do it separately. Yes the following 139 was 7 minutes behind and I notified the controller of the situation to let the bus behind know. Good man!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 11:39:00 GMT
Thanks,I think you've answered the question to my satisfaction. Just on a personal note, was it likely that there'd only be a shortish wait for another 139 going through to Waterloo as scheduled? With all I read on here about turns and lack of immediate alternatives it must be extra daunting for people like that wheelchair couple to face a bus journey, particularly as they now know they're going to have to do it separately. Yes the following 139 was 7 minutes behind and I notified the controller of the situation to let the bus behind know. One driver I had on the 291 did nothing to help a wheelchair user. There was 1 buggy in the area and the driver just said 'I cant force them off' which i get that they cant but he didn't ask or play an announcement or speak to control to tell the bus behind.
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Post by 700101 on Aug 11, 2019 17:04:47 GMT
Being reported large major scale power cuts are affecting the UK - TfL reporting traffic lights are affected! Also trains and airports being disrupted. I got caught up on 9T84, just as it left St Pancras at 1651 train came to a stand in the tunnels, Had to evacuate around 800 passengers back to St Pancras, got upstairs at 2025 then helped out until 2200.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 11, 2019 17:57:36 GMT
Yes the following 139 was 7 minutes behind and I notified the controller of the situation to let the bus behind know. One driver I had on the 291 did nothing to help a wheelchair user. There was 1 buggy in the area and the driver just said 'I cant force them off' which i get that they cant but he didn't ask or play an announcement or speak to control to tell the bus behind. Paulley v Firstgroup in the Supreme Court was a pyrrhic victory for the wheelchair user Mr Paulley. The judges were critical of the imprecise wording of sections of the Act but, in the main (there were dissenters), agreed that it did not make clear the buggy user's (or whatever) obligations to move if so required. They did suggest strongly that the government should implement changes in a Bill that was expected in the House on bus services but, afaik, that didn't happen. They did make clear, however, that the bus driver, as representative of their employer, was under an obligation to do what they could to facilitate the wheelchair user i.e. a shrug and 'I can't do anything' was inadequate. Of course, if it had been the USA and Mr Paulley had been awarded a million dollars in compensation then Firstgroup and the rest would make d*mned sure that buggy users moved!
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Post by Volvo on Aug 11, 2019 20:54:14 GMT
Yes the following 139 was 7 minutes behind and I notified the controller of the situation to let the bus behind know. One driver I had on the 291 did nothing to help a wheelchair user. There was 1 buggy in the area and the driver just said 'I cant force them off' which i get that they cant but he didn't ask or play an announcement or speak to control to tell the bus behind. I always try help or find a solution.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 11, 2019 21:19:40 GMT
One driver I had on the 291 did nothing to help a wheelchair user. There was 1 buggy in the area and the driver just said 'I cant force them off' which i get that they cant but he didn't ask or play an announcement or speak to control to tell the bus behind. I always try help or find a solution. I think most drivers do, or would. I noticed a month ago when I was on a Plymouth Citybus Dart and using a tip-up seat in the wheelchair area two notices 'requiring' other users to vacate the area if a wheelchair user wanted to board: on my return journey on a First Kernow bus the notice was much more mealy-mouthed, despite First having had the Supreme Court ruling against them, and the bus was only eighteen months old so it wasn't a case of an 'old' notice.
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Post by Pilot on Aug 12, 2019 9:33:48 GMT
8 out of 10 times the buggy user/s will not move for wheelchair because world evolves around them, just saying from experience. Another thing that does my head in is that when I have wheelchair user, some woman decides to squeeze their buggy next to wheelchair without asking a. driver and b. wheelchair user if it's ok to do so, if I am in wheelchair and some woman pushes her buggy across me and now I have to listen to her baby screaming in my face I'd be pretty pee'd off, but depends on wheelchair user...because I had both times. I'd personally never do that myself, it's a space for wheelchair, just let the user ride in his space in peace.
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