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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 10:21:20 GMT
8 out of 10 times the buggy user/s will not move for wheelchair because world evolves around them, just saying from experience. Another thing that does my head in is that when I have wheelchair user, some woman decides to squeeze their buggy next to wheelchair without asking a. driver and b. wheelchair user if it's ok to do so, if I am in wheelchair and some woman pushes her buggy across me and now I have to listen to her baby screaming in my face I'd be pretty pee'd off, but depends on wheelchair user...because I had both times. I'd personally never do that myself, it's a space for wheelchair, just let the user ride in his space in peace. On that basis everybody thinks the world revolves around them, buses are there for everybody and we all want to get somewhere. I can understand somebody being miffed about a screaming brat but that's another issue.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 12, 2019 10:37:55 GMT
8 out of 10 times the buggy user/s will not move for wheelchair because world evolves around them, just saying from experience. Another thing that does my head in is that when I have wheelchair user, some woman decides to squeeze their buggy next to wheelchair without asking a. driver and b. wheelchair user if it's ok to do so, if I am in wheelchair and some woman pushes her buggy across me and now I have to listen to her baby screaming in my face I'd be pretty pee'd off, but depends on wheelchair user...because I had both times. I'd personally never do that myself, it's a space for wheelchair, just let the user ride in his space in peace. On that basis everybody thinks the world revolves around them, buses are there for everybody and we all want to get somewhere. I can understand somebody being miffed about a screaming brat but that's another issue. We were all "Screaming brats" once. Just nature, babies can't exactly talk can they.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 10:46:50 GMT
On that basis everybody thinks the world revolves around them, buses are there for everybody and we all want to get somewhere. I can understand somebody being miffed about a screaming brat but that's another issue. We were all "Screaming brats" once. Just nature, babies can't exactly talk can they. Speak for yourself! My kids have never been screaming brats.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 12, 2019 10:50:25 GMT
We were all "Screaming brats" once. Just nature, babies can't exactly talk can they. Speak for yourself! My kids have never been screaming brats. How do you know? one's own child will probably never actually seem like a screaming brat to themselves. Just like you are calling other infants screaming brats other people of the public may well consider your children to be the same. It's just a course of nature, they can't talk so cry and scream. It's a lie saying that a child isn't like that because it's all they can do.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2019 11:27:38 GMT
You can't force buggy users to make space for the wheelchair. You can ask them if they would be willing to wait for the next bus but if they refuse you cannot simply kick them off the bus.
If there is no space, the driver should contact his controller to inform him of the situation, and the controller should inform the next bus of the situation. If there is no space on the next bus, I believe a minicab should be ordered, if I remember correctly.
If there is enough space for a buggy to share the wheelchair area with a wheelchair, you are supposed to allow both to travel, providing they both fit in the wheelchair area and neither is blocking the aisle.
On many routes that are frequented by buggies, both of these situations are very common, and thankfully most wheelchair users are very understanding.
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Post by Pilot on Aug 12, 2019 16:32:50 GMT
Yeah but most buggy users won't be understanding of wheelchair user and will refuse to get off (which is yes their right) but looking from side it looks like a stupid move especially when the area is designed for wheelchair user, with stickers all over the bus that this is wheelchair priority area.
As far as babies crying, again of course they can't speak, but when mom is on a seat yapping on her phone about her 'ex' problems and so on and entire bus is listening to it then it does my head in, instead of focusing on her child, swaying the buggy or something to calm the kid down, because the thing is crying because of lack of care lol...Literally if I had to give another example, it's basically like having constantly barking dog next door and neighbours don't see that as an issue when you can't fall asleep at night.
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Post by rj131 on Aug 12, 2019 17:29:52 GMT
Yeah but most buggy users won't be understanding of wheelchair user and will refuse to get off (which is yes their right) but looking from side it looks like a stupid move especially when the area is designed for wheelchair user, with stickers all over the bus that this is wheelchair priority area. As far as babies crying, again of course they can't speak, but when mom is on a seat yapping on her phone about her 'ex' problems and so on and entire bus is listening to it then it does my head in, instead of focusing on her child, swaying the buggy or something to calm the kid down, because the thing is crying because of lack of care lol...Literally if I had to give another example, it's basically like having constantly barking dog next door and neighbours don't see that as an issue when you can't fall asleep at night. Isnt it law now for the pushchair to make space for a wheelchair where necessary?
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Post by busaholic on Aug 12, 2019 20:19:02 GMT
Yeah but most buggy users won't be understanding of wheelchair user and will refuse to get off (which is yes their right) but looking from side it looks like a stupid move especially when the area is designed for wheelchair user, with stickers all over the bus that this is wheelchair priority area. As far as babies crying, again of course they can't speak, but when mom is on a seat yapping on her phone about her 'ex' problems and so on and entire bus is listening to it then it does my head in, instead of focusing on her child, swaying the buggy or something to calm the kid down, because the thing is crying because of lack of care lol...Literally if I had to give another example, it's basically like having constantly barking dog next door and neighbours don't see that as an issue when you can't fall asleep at night. Isnt it law now for the pushchair to make space for a wheelchair where necessary? That is the intention of the law, as confirmed by the Supreme Court, but the law is badly framed, so the means of achieving the intent are not clear. One of the Supreme Court judges in his judgment expessed the view that the recalcitrant non-mover could be arrested and prosecuted under anti-social behaviour legislation, but that view didn't seem to gain universal approval. Pushchairs can't themselves be prosecuted of course, except possibly in Putin's Russia!
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 12, 2019 20:22:38 GMT
Isnt it law now for the pushchair to make space for a wheelchair where necessary? That is the intention of the law, as confirmed by the Supreme Court, but the law is badly framed, so the means of achieving the intent are not clear. One of the Supreme Court judges in his judgment expessed the view that the recalcitrant non-mover could be arrested and prosecuted under anti-social behaviour legislation, but that view didn't seem to gain universal approval. Pushchairs can't themselves be prosecuted of course, except possibly in Putin's Russia! Unfortunately the DDA places no responsibility on individual members of the public ... the responsibility is the operators ... the individual can not be prosecuted under DDA laws.
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Post by busaholic on Aug 12, 2019 20:37:09 GMT
That is the intention of the law, as confirmed by the Supreme Court, but the law is badly framed, so the means of achieving the intent are not clear. One of the Supreme Court judges in his judgment expessed the view that the recalcitrant non-mover could be arrested and prosecuted under anti-social behaviour legislation, but that view didn't seem to gain universal approval. Pushchairs can't themselves be prosecuted of course, except possibly in Putin's Russia! Unfortunately the DDA places no responsibility on individual members of the public ... the responsibility is the operators ... the individual can not be prosecuted under DDA laws. Without going back to all the views expressed in the judgment I can't provide chapter and verse, but the judge I mentioned above was suggesting that part of the law governing Conditions of Carriage could be invoked. Many of the judges said, in effect, any reasonable person asked to move for a wheelchair would agree to, which begs the question 'what about the unreasonable person then?!'
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 12, 2019 20:54:33 GMT
Unfortunately the DDA places no responsibility on individual members of the public ... the responsibility is the operators ... the individual can not be prosecuted under DDA laws. Without going back to all the views expressed in the judgment I can't provide chapter and verse, but the judge I mentioned above was suggesting that part of the law governing Conditions of Carriage could be invoked. Many of the judges said, in effect, any reasonable person asked to move for a wheelchair would agree to, which begs the question 'what about the unreasonable person then?!' But who is going to be scared by conditions of carriage? It is not breaking any laws. Again up to operator to enforce. And as we know many buggy users are not reasonable.
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Post by rif153 on Aug 13, 2019 12:49:26 GMT
Without going back to all the views expressed in the judgment I can't provide chapter and verse, but the judge I mentioned above was suggesting that part of the law governing Conditions of Carriage could be invoked. Many of the judges said, in effect, any reasonable person asked to move for a wheelchair would agree to, which begs the question 'what about the unreasonable person then?!' But who is going to be scared by conditions of carriage? It is not breaking any laws. Again up to operator to enforce. And as we know many buggy users are not reasonable. I doubt even 1% of all passengers on public transport know the conditions of carriage. They are meaningless
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Post by busaholic on Aug 13, 2019 14:24:20 GMT
But who is going to be scared by conditions of carriage? It is not breaking any laws. Again up to operator to enforce. And as we know many buggy users are not reasonable. I doubt even 1% of all passengers on public transport know the conditions of carriage. They are meaningless I agree they're meaningless, or should be in this context, but it's a fact that people can be taken to court and, even, found guilty for disobeying obscure regulations which nobody could be expected to realise existed. I'm not particularly talking about TfL's conditions of carriage here, just how 'the powers-that-be' can sometimes lose all sense of perspective and hound someone for e.g. (allegedly) putting a non-recyclable item into a recycling bag: shall we say I have personal experience of being on the receiving end of such behaviour, and I'm now a 'collector' of other similar examples. Anyway, just to go back to what I believe the High Court judge was getting at - that disobeying the Conditions of Carriage (that the person wouldn't have been aware of in the first place) could result in action under antisocial behaviour laws to prosecute the recalcitrant buggy owner. I wasn't implying in the least that this should happen - it was more a case of me pointing out how removed from the real world of the average bus passenger a judge can be, but then, they've maybe never travelled on a bus, or not since schooldays anyway.
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Post by Paul on Aug 13, 2019 20:06:23 GMT
Speak for yourself! My kids have never been screaming brats. How do you know? one's own child will probably never actually seem like a screaming brat to themselves. Just like you are calling other infants screaming brats other people of the public may well consider your children to be the same. It's just a course of nature, they can't talk so cry and scream. It's a lie saying that a child isn't like that because it's all they can do. Are you a parent? I’m guessing not because that’s such a silly thing to say. Whenever I took my daughter on a bus or train she never cried or screamed and if she started to make a fuss I was there to calm her down. Infants that are crying or screaming simply want attention from mum or dad and as has been mentioned often mum or dad are too engrossed in something else to care about their child So yeah, my child wasn’t like that (she’s five now and quite happily just chats away) and I don’t take kindly to being called a liar for saying so
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Aug 13, 2019 20:09:52 GMT
How do you know? one's own child will probably never actually seem like a screaming brat to themselves. Just like you are calling other infants screaming brats other people of the public may well consider your children to be the same. It's just a course of nature, they can't talk so cry and scream. It's a lie saying that a child isn't like that because it's all they can do. Are you a parent? I’m guessing not because that’s such a silly thing to say. Whenever I took my daughter on a bus or train she never cried or screamed and if she started to make a fuss I was there to calm her down. Infants that are crying or screaming simply want attention from mum or dad and as has been mentioned often mum or dad are too engrossed in something else to care about their child So yeah, my child wasn’t like that (she’s five now and quite happily just chats away) and I don’t take kindly to being called a liar for saying so No, however I quite often have a screaming child to look after on a bus and I don't take kindly to him being called a brat. Parents in many cases genuinely try their best and its not their fault that their child is crying, you need to remember that they cannot talk and not everyone is psychic enough to know what will stop them crying immediately. A crying child is just part of human nature and we all have to deal with them whether we like it or not.
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