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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 15:04:01 GMT
It must be one of the craziest places in the UK for service changes. Almost weekly major changes occur to the Network will little or no advance notice.
Latest changes are that Arriva are axing the services 500 & 501 from Febrary 7th with no replacements.
From February 14th TWH will commence a service between Harlow & Romford operating 5 journies a day at a 2.5 Hour interval.
From the 7th February the Centre Bus service 524 will cease but the SM service will continue
From the 31st January the service R3 will no longer operate
From the 22nd January service 555 will be cut back to Waltham Abbey & no longer serve Waltham Cross
New route 355 will also run approximately every hour on Mondays to Fridays, will link Harlow with Bumbles Green, Nazeing, Waltham Abbey, and Waltham Cross.
SM Coaches services 19 and 20 will be revised and new route 21 introduced. All buses, running approximately every 15 minutes, will start at Harlow Bus Station and serve Brays Grove, Potter Street, Thornwood and Epping. Buses terminating at Epping Station will continue to be numbered 19. Two buses per hour will extend to North Weald and Ongar. Buses terminating at Ongar will be numbered 20. One bus per hour will further continue from Ongar to Kelveden Hatch, Brentwood and Warley. This will be numbered 21
The above is belived to be currently correct but in Harlow things tend to change overnight so there may be further changes
It is not exactly the way to run bus services. I am supprised the Traffic Commisioners have not taken an interest in there antics
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Post by jay38a on Jan 16, 2011 21:20:09 GMT
Shame to see the long standing 500/1 bite the dust completely (apart from Sunday). Could Harlow become another Thurrock where Independents push the big boys out. For more information on the X5, see the latest LSP Bulletin which says its going via Epping and Loughton. I suspect the X5 will be run with an MPD due to the LSP saying max length 10m and Single Decker and the only Euro 3 bus they have that is Single Decker is the MPDs.
Stopping Points in London for the X5 are changed to be:
1. Romford, The Brewery Waterloo Road (stop S)
2. Romford Station South Street (stop Z)
3. Romford, Western Road (stop P)
4. Romford Market St Edwards Way, bus (stop H)
This is different to the previous entry in the last LSP Bulletin.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 2:36:55 GMT
Could Harlow become another Thurrock where Independents push the big boys out. It was more like the other way round in Thurrock - Arriva couldn't wait to convert GY to a T fL only garage once they realised Ensign were prepared to step up and cover the gaps if they pulled out. Mind you, I'm surprised GY is still in it's present location as the only route it's close to is the 370...... |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 15:53:32 GMT
Shame to see the long standing 500/1 bite the dust completely (apart from Sunday). Could Harlow become another Thurrock where Independents push the big boys out. For more information on the X5, see the latest LSP Bulletin which says its going via Epping and Loughton. I suspect the X5 will be run with an MPD due to the LSP saying max length 10m and Single Decker and the only Euro 3 bus they have that is Single Decker is the MPDs. Stopping Points in London for the X5 are changed to be: 1. Romford, The Brewery Waterloo Road (stop S) 2. Romford Station South Street (stop Z) 3. Romford, Western Road (stop P) 4. Romford Market St Edwards Way, bus (stop H) This is different to the previous entry in the last LSP Bulletin. Must be a reasonable chunk of Harlows work gone. The PVR must be at least 5 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 15:59:55 GMT
Could Harlow become another Thurrock where Independents push the big boys out The independents have had a huge effect on Arriva (most notably the SM Coaches/Olympian/Roadrunner group). Routes 19, 20 (and to some extent the new 21 to Brentwood) have pushed the 500/501 out. Although the new(ish) Network Harlow seems to be beating the independents. Roadrunner routes M2 and M4 were withdrawn, and they seem to be struggling with the Sumners and Katherines estates. Also the extension of route 6 to Potter Street has taken some passengers away from SM. No doubt SM will benefit significantly from the withdrawal of the 500/501, although I can see frequencies being reduced and fares increased on the 19/20/21. BTW, the 555 will still operate between Harlow and Debden, but will just leave out the annoying Waltham Cross double run. The 555 will also serve Ninefields instead of Shernbroke Road in Waltham Abbey. A new 255 will operate Debden-WX via Loughton, Shernbroke Road and Waltham Abbey. The 355 will operate Waltham Cross-Harlow, and will also serve Lower Nazeing, so this means slightly more competition against Arriva 505. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 16:36:22 GMT
Shame to see the long standing 500/1 bite the dust completely (apart from Sunday). Could Harlow become another Thurrock where Independents push the big boys out. For more information on the X5, see the latest LSP Bulletin which says its going via Epping and Loughton. I suspect the X5 will be run with an MPD due to the LSP saying max length 10m and Single Decker and the only Euro 3 bus they have that is Single Decker is the MPDs. Stopping Points in London for the X5 are changed to be: 1. Romford, The Brewery Waterloo Road (stop S) 2. Romford Station South Street (stop Z) 3. Romford, Western Road (stop P) 4. Romford Market St Edwards Way, bus (stop H) This is different to the previous entry in the last LSP Bulletin. Must be a reasonable chunk of Harlows work gone. The PVR must be at least 5 According to harlowride - 500/1 has a combined pvr of 2 |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 18:47:12 GMT
Must be a reasonable chunk of Harlows work gone. The PVR must be at least 5 According to harlowride - 500/1 has a combined pvr of 2 That cannot be right. The 500 has about 3 journeys an hour which take just over 20 minutes for a single journey. The 501 has 1 journey an hour and takes just under 1.5 hours for a single journey |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2011 22:53:15 GMT
According to harlowride - 500/1 has a combined pvr of 2 That cannot be right. The 500 has about 3 journeys an hour which take just over 20 minutes for a single journey. The 501 has 1 journey an hour and takes just under 1.5 hours for a single journey No, it cannot be right. Would be impossible to operate with just 2 buses. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2011 13:35:35 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 12:18:00 GMT
I am not convinced the route will last. Once a service drops below hourly it becomes very unattractive and few people use them |
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Post by jay38a on Jan 20, 2011 14:10:39 GMT
I am not convinced the route will last. Once a service drops below hourly it becomes very unattractive and few people use them Where did you get that judgement from, there are some 2 hourly services which carry very good loadings, the Sunday 401 in kent comes to mind, the X53 in Dorset, X4 in Northamptonshire on Sundays and apparently the loading on the 375 in London is building. Another example could be the 515 in Surrey, the Sunday 2 hourly service was so successful its now boosted to Hourly. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2011 17:09:56 GMT
I am not convinced the route will last. Once a service drops below hourly it becomes very unattractive and few people use them Where did you get that judgement from, there are some 2 hourly services which carry very good loadings, the Sunday 401 in kent comes to mind, the X53 in Dorset, X4 in Northamptonshire on Sundays and apparently the loading on the 375 in London is building. Another example could be the 515 in Surrey, the Sunday 2 hourly service was so successful its now boosted to Hourly. Also the Sunday 501 (Ongar to Harlow via Epping) has quite healthy loadings. Same goes for the 541 (Loughton to Epping, extended to Harlow every 2 hours on Sundays). Although, the 541 and 501 share the route from Epping to Harlow. And i've been on the X53 which you mentioned, and that does get busy. I'm surprised it isn't increased to hourly! Back to the X5 though, there is demand to go to Romford. The past has shown that hourly services from that area to Romford do have passengers, but not enough to be economical. A 2-hourly frequency will encourage more people to go to Romford, as the one return journey on the 575 isn't attractive to a lot of people. Although, I don't blame Bob for being doubtful about the service. People in Harlow already have a large shopping centre, and places like Epping, Loughton and Waltham Cross are all good shopping areas nearby. But, Romford is far superior to those shopping places, and I know many people in Loughton who get the Central to Stratford, then NatEx to Romford (or 66 from Leytonstone to Romford). Also, there hasn't been an express service for a very long time from the Harlow/Epping area to Harlow (there was that experimental X99 service between Harlow and Basildon via Romford, which was popular to begin with, but didn't last long -- www.londonbusesbyadam.fotopic.net/p42091533.html), so that might be attractive for passengers (it takes 1 hour 10 mins from Harlow, just under an hour from Epping, and 35 mins from Debden!). I wish TWH well for the X5. Hopefully they will have good publicity for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2011 12:34:03 GMT
Where did you get that judgement from, there are some 2 hourly services which carry very good loadings, the Sunday 401 in kent comes to mind, the X53 in Dorset, X4 in Northamptonshire on Sundays and apparently the loading on the 375 in London is building. Another example could be the 515 in Surrey, the Sunday 2 hourly service was so successful its now boosted to Hourly. As you say the Waltham Cross/Abbey already has good shopping and also frequent direct services to Harlow The Harlow to Brentwood route tended to have a most pssengers just using it for short journeys and had little throgh traffic Personally I think it will just attract the occassional traveller. Whether at a 2.5 hour interval it will keep the passenger numbers the old service had I doubt. At best I suspect it will be marginal Also the Sunday 501 (Ongar to Harlow via Epping) has quite healthy loadings. Same goes for the 541 (Loughton to Epping, extended to Harlow every 2 hours on Sundays). Although, the 541 and 501 share the route from Epping to Harlow. And i've been on the X53 which you mentioned, and that does get busy. I'm surprised it isn't increased to hourly! Back to the X5 though, there is demand to go to Romford. The past has shown that hourly services from that area to Romford do have passengers, but not enough to be economical. A 2-hourly frequency will encourage more people to go to Romford, as the one return journey on the 575 isn't attractive to a lot of people. Although, I don't blame Bob for being doubtful about the service. People in Harlow already have a large shopping centre, and places like Epping, Loughton and Waltham Cross are all good shopping areas nearby. But, Romford is far superior to those shopping places, and I know many people in Loughton who get the Central to Stratford, then NatEx to Romford (or 66 from Leytonstone to Romford). Also, there hasn't been an express service for a very long time from the Harlow/Epping area to Harlow (there was that experimental X99 service between Harlow and Basildon via Romford, which was popular to begin with, but didn't last long -- www.londonbusesbyadam.fotopic.net/p42091533.html), so that might be attractive for passengers (it takes 1 hour 10 mins from Harlow, just under an hour from Epping, and 35 mins from Debden!). I wish TWH well for the X5. Hopefully they will have good publicity for it. |
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