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Post by greeny253 on Aug 31, 2012 18:32:20 GMT
Indeed, though it doesn't look so bad in the flesh. The conversion really is a top notch job (the paperwork in my hands suggests it was done by Salvador Caetano UK), and with all the gubbins removed it is beyond my means at the moment to re-convert it back. Going with the same livery as applied to Harris's original single doored DAF's means applying black to all the window surrounds, so I'm hoping that will make the difference less obvious.... I'd be inclined to speak to Ensign see what they could do for you
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Post by 6HP502C on Sept 3, 2012 12:34:31 GMT
There's no if about it - I have bought a DAF!! Don't worry though, I won't buy a Pyoneer - uglyist things I ever drove. The rear end of those things were incredibly ugly...but what about the performance? The R36x DJN examples were absolute monsters, I used to jump on them on the 185 after school sometime around 2003/4 and ride all the way to Lewisham - some of the drivers really seemed to love hammering them!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 1:22:02 GMT
I'd be inclined to speak to Ensign see what they could do for you My budget is only so big!! Given what's been removed, and therefore what would need to be sourced to reverse the damage, it just isn't financially viable for me at this time. Who knows what might happen in the future - there is still the possibility of getting hold of another former two door sister - time will tell but we're definitely talking long term...... The rear end of those things were incredibly ugly...but what about the performance? The R36x DJN examples were absolute monsters, I used to jump on them on the 185 after school sometime around 2003/4 and ride all the way to Lewisham - some of the drivers really seemed to love hammering them! I only drove the examples North of the river; yes they were a nice drive, but their ugliness still outweighs the drive IMO!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 19:15:39 GMT
Well done Colin, you have taken me back down memory lane with Harris Bus! I used to get on the 128 and 129 to and from college (I went to Barking college 1999-2002) and remember the lime green and blue of Harris Bus. It really was a sad time when they went under, I remmeber speaking to one of the drivers, it was incredibly difficult. A company living beyond their means, but they were so recognisable with their striking colours that are no longer seen these days!
I didn't know these buses were delivered to Harris in red. As far as I know about Harris, they used to operate in white, and then changed when they went into London operation from just a Thurrock-based commercial company/ operation?
I often wonder, and I have said so on here, what Harris would be like if they were still around today? One possibility would be that they would have been taken over, probably into the Go-Ahead group as its predocessor East Thames Buses did, and other small companies Docklands buses and Blue Triangle.
I would have to say, however, that I used to really dislike these buses! I much preferred the Volvo Olympians for the following reasons: - More modern look with the exit doors further back - Better height staging for the passengers - back section of the lower deck rasied - Driver cab heightened so that drivers were at the same level when seated as the passengers when standing. On the DAF's, the drivers are at the same level as the passengers - meaning they are dwarfed when driving seated! I remember a driver being bullied by school children one evening on the 128 - no assault screen and in the low position. Not good. - The blind boxes were, and by the pictures, still are terrible! Why TfL (or LT at that time?) didn't change the blind box is beyond me. The numbers were always at different levels and when the 8 and 9 were half way on the final digit, you didnt always know if it was a 128 or 129! Also, there was always a blank blind, either the destination or the via points, so they were/ are a real mess. All in all, not great buses, not sure why Harris purchased them. It would have been great if Harris had waited and purchased a Dennis Trident from 1998!
I'll be interested to see how you get on, bring back more memories. I love the pictures of this vehicle displaying "Ilford Link". - Gareth.
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Post by vjaska on Sept 9, 2012 19:43:38 GMT
Well done Colin, you have taken me back down memory lane with Harris Bus! I used to get on the 128 and 129 to and from college (I went to Barking college 1999-2002) and remember the lime green and blue of Harris Bus. It really was a sad time when they went under, I remmeber speaking to one of the drivers, it was incredibly difficult. A company living beyond their means, but they were so recognisable with their striking colours that are no longer seen these days! I didn't know these buses were delivered to Harris in red. As far as I know about Harris, they used to operate in white, and then changed when they went into London operation from just a Thurrock-based commercial company/ operation? I often wonder, and I have said so on here, what Harris would be like if they were still around today? One possibility would be that they would have been taken over, probably into the Go-Ahead group as its predocessor East Thames Buses did, and other small companies Docklands buses and Blue Triangle. I would have to say, however, that I used to really dislike these buses! I much preferred the Volvo Olympians for the following reasons: - More modern look with the exit doors further back - Better height staging for the passengers - back section of the lower deck rasied - Driver cab heightened so that drivers were at the same level when seated as the passengers when standing. On the DAF's, the drivers are at the same level as the passengers - meaning they are dwarfed when driving seated! I remember a driver being bullied by school children one evening on the 128 - no assault screen and in the low position. Not good. - The blind boxes were, and by the pictures, still are terrible! Why TfL (or LT at that time?) didn't change the blind box is beyond me. The numbers were always at different levels and when the 8 and 9 were half way on the final digit, you didnt always know if it was a 128 or 129! Also, there was always a blank blind, either the destination or the via points, so they were/ are a real mess. All in all, not great buses, not sure why Harris purchased them. It would have been great if Harris had waited and purchased a Dennis Trident from 1998 Taken from Ians Bus Stop website But Harris Bus had underestimated the costs of operating their London tendered services, with leased new buses, unsocial hours working and other costs not met in their commercial operations. In early 2000 Harris Bus went into administration. No other business could be found to take on the contracts, indicating that Harris had underbid rather than been profligate in their operation: no-one else could see a way of making these contracts work at the price either!Going by that, Harris Bus got there just desserts by going under and unfortunately, it was the staff who get chewed up and spat out. The blind boxes are fine, the reason why blinds were like that is the drivers either didn't wind around enough or the blinds were not looked after enough which doesn't surprise me as Harris were very poor. They were great buses, just with the wrong company. And as for them purchasing Tridents in 1998, Harris wouldn't of lasted till early 2000!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 20:02:08 GMT
Yes, I believe Harris did undercut other operators for the routes. When they went bust, I understand all the other companies got together and agreed not to take any of the routes as the price wasn't viable operationally. That is why TfL/LT took it over with East Thames. I do remember that when they went bust, the 128 was operating with 2 buses between Ilford and Romford (usually 6) every 30-40 minutes! the 129 was about every 20. Was a complete disgrace.
I hated these buses, I'm sorry but the blind boxes should have been replaced and I'm happy with the ones TfL currently operate with as they are clear unlike that shambles. I remember the engines on these buses were also terrible, the noise was like a dieing whale! I was pleased when East Thames replaced them with their excellent long wheelbase VWL's in 2002.
As Harris Bus tried to rise from a local Essex operator to major London contract force, do you think Ensign would think about expanding with a bid for the 372? Not a major TfL route, but would increase their Lakeside operation and give them some TfL funding? - Gareth.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2012 18:04:30 GMT
Some interesting view points - I'm glad my purchase has made for good discussion!! As for Ensign, I don't believe London is for them - the regime is far too rigid these days. Ensign have just started the X1 from Lakeside to Basildon, almost in direct competion with First's long established 100 route - in fact the Ensign timetable does make direct refernces to how its quicker than the 100 I'm surprised Ensign haven't sold their operation on TBH - that's their usual way of doing things. If they're staying in the operator market, I wouldn't be too surprised if they move further into First's Essex territory. There has long been a rumour of either First taking Ensign, or Ensign taking First's Basildon depot.........with First unloading parts of its business recently, and given Ensign's previous for selling.......hmm.....
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Post by VPL630 on Sept 11, 2012 19:20:39 GMT
Some interesting view points - I'm glad my purchase has made for good discussion!! As for Ensign, I don't believe London is for them - the regime is far too rigid these days. Ensign have just started the X1 from Lakeside to Basildon, almost in direct competion with First's long established 100 route - in fact the Ensign timetable does make direct refernces to how its quicker than the 100 I'm surprised Ensign haven't sold their operation on TBH - that's their usual way of doing things. If they're staying in the operator market, I wouldn't be too surprised if they move further into First's Essex territory. There has long been a rumour of either First taking Ensign, or Ensign taking First's Basildon depot.........with First unloading parts of its business recently, and given Ensign's previous for selling.......hmm..... If Ensign took over First Basildon Depot, that would just be great for me, fed up of waiting for an S/R reg dart to turn up late on the 551 that is just about road legal, or when they put a DMC on the 73 so we get a MPD on the 551 I could go on and on about First Basildon ;D ;D
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Post by john on Sept 12, 2012 16:01:58 GMT
Some interesting view points - I'm glad my purchase has made for good discussion!! As for Ensign, I don't believe London is for them - the regime is far too rigid these days. Ensign have just started the X1 from Lakeside to Basildon, almost in direct competion with First's long established 100 route - in fact the Ensign timetable does make direct refernces to how its quicker than the 100 I'm surprised Ensign haven't sold their operation on TBH - that's their usual way of doing things. If they're staying in the operator market, I wouldn't be too surprised if they move further into First's Essex territory. There has long been a rumour of either First taking Ensign, or Ensign taking First's Basildon depot.........with First unloading parts of its business recently, and given Ensign's previous for selling.......hmm..... Heard direct from an Ensign controller, so not sure how reliable it is, that a) Ensign are NOT going back into London (remember the former Capital Citybus operations were originally Ensign in the late 80's/early 90's) and that it will take a very, very large sum of money to buy them out after how they drove Arriva out of Thurrock. Personally I find Ensign to be a decent operator considering their size. I do wonder if they may be becoming abit too big though. Only time will tell.
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