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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 16:39:13 GMT
Since some areas of Britain is now accepting the Smart Cards, will they be able to take the contactless bank cards?
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Post by snoggle on Apr 6, 2013 17:35:52 GMT
Since some areas of Britain is now accepting the Smart Cards, will they be able to take the contactless bank cards? The only scheme I am aware of that will allow use of CBCs is that being introduced by First Bus. They have a nationwide project that will use CBCs rather than First having their own smartcards. However the new ticket machines and readers will be able to read ITSO specification cards (e.g. the National Concessionary Passes). All other operators or PTEs are introducing ITSO spec cards with their own branding and products. Only Oxford has a scheme that allows acceptance of ITSO spec cards on three operators' services. I expect that PTE schemes, when launched, will also work across a number of operators as they have multi modal, multi operator tickets. I believe many ticket machines include provision to handle ITSO smartcards and bank cards. However the operator has to pay to have those functions switched on and to have the necessary back room systems to process the transaction data and transfer it to those parties who need it. Greater Manchester will use smartcards and CBCs on Metrolonk first. Buses and trains to follow afterwards. Stagecoach have already launched Stagecoach Smart on their buses in Manchester. Merseyside are doing the "Walrus Card" Tyne and Wear are doing the "Pop Card" Network West Midlands are doing the "Swift Card" South Yorkshire are doing the "Yorcard" West Yorkshire are doing the "Yorcard" Wales have a national scheme in development as do Scotland. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2013 19:16:28 GMT
Why havent England have their own "national" scheme? I know Greater London have the Oyster card, they should invent something like a universal bus smart card for all services in Britain, including Greater London with the oyster price cap.  |
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Post by jay38a on Apr 6, 2013 19:50:35 GMT
Why havent England have their own "national" scheme? I know Greater London have the Oyster card, they should invent something like a universal bus smart card for all services in Britain, including Greater London with the oyster price cap. That's the whole point of ITSO, that in the end you will be able to use the same pass everywhere. Sent from my GT-I9100 using proboards |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 6, 2013 22:23:53 GMT
Why havent England have their own "national" scheme? I know Greater London have the Oyster card, they should invent something like a universal bus smart card for all services in Britain, including Greater London with the oyster price cap. The DfT have mandated the ITSO specification to ensure ITSO standard cards can be read on any compliant reader on a ticket machine / gate / validator. The DfT are paying to get the Oyster system modified so ITSO cards can be accepted on all TfL equipment. Note that Oyster cards will not work outside of London even after these mods are complete (except where TfL install equipment such as at Watford or Shenfield). The problem is that the DfT are not doing anything to allow for cross availability between different areas or operators. You need to have some sort of system that allows money to be transferred between operators. The way cards are set up at the moment they nearly all just hold a season ticket pass valid in a small area. Only the Cheshire Travelcard works like PAYG and even then you have to tell the driver where you are going so they can press the fare which is then taken off the card. This is no faster than issuing a paper ticket! For example lets imagine a future situation where ITSO cards have both season tickets and cash for PAYG. If I had a Stagecoach Smart card from Cambridge I would have paid the money to Stagecoach in Cambridge. If the card was valid elsewhere and I used it in, for example, Bristol on a First Bus (using the PAYG bit) then somehow Stagecoach in Cambridge have to know the money has been deducted by First in Bristol and there has to be a process to transfer the money from Cambridge to Bristol. There is no incentive for private operators to spend time and money to create a system to allow for such transfers. The railway system has had a "clearing" system almost since railways began which is why you have been able to buy through tickets between operators for well over 100 years. There is no such system for buses because buses have assumed to be "local" with no concept of national availability. The closest we got was the Wanderbus ticket with the National Bus Company but that is long gone. Even the big groups do not have tickets that work across all their subsidiaries - Arriva used to do a National Rover ticket but scrapped it because no one bought it. I doubt anyone knew about it because Arriva never advertised it.  I think it is very unlikely that we will ever get a proper National Transport Card because there is no "push" from anyone to make it happen and to pay for the inevitable costs of any clearing system. Apparently you can use Go Ahead "Key" cards in different parts of the country and seemingly Stagecoach's "Smart" cards can also work across subsidiaries. However in each case there is no PAYG facility. You can only add a day or season ticket for a local area. The Transport Minister, Norman Baker, has a "vision" of a national transport smartcard but I am not sure what that vision really means. The DfT recently issued its "door to door" strategy to try to tie together all modes to give seamless journeys. Their document does talk about Smartcards but I have only skimmed it so don't know all the detail. In the South East there is also the South East Flexible Ticketing Project (SEFT) that is supposed to give regional interavailabilty including on and across the TfL network. In theory you will be able to use a Brighton and Hove Key card on a Brighton bus then a Southern or FCC train, then the tube in London and then a Chiltern train to High Wycombe and an Arriva Bus in High Wycombe. I doubt there will be a single fare or a cap - you'll pay for each bit separately but it's possible the rail charge will equal whatever the price is for a paper ticket from Brighton to High Wycombe. The fun with SEFT is supposed to start at the end of this year with Southern and TfL doing a joint scheme. |
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Post by jay38a on Apr 7, 2013 20:31:46 GMT
Why havent England have their own "national" scheme? I know Greater London have the Oyster card, they should invent something like a universal bus smart card for all services in Britain, including Greater London with the oyster price cap. The closest we got was the Wanderbus ticket with the National Bus Company but that is long gone. Even the big groups do not have tickets that work across all their subsidiaries - Arriva used to do a National Rover ticket but scrapped it because no one bought it. I doubt anyone knew about it because Arriva never advertised it. In the South East theres an Explorer ticket at the moment which can be used on most bus services within the South East however depending on who you get it with depends on how far outside the area you can get, i.e with a Stagecoach East Kent/East Sussex and South issued ticket you can get all the way to Weymouth on it, however with an Arriva issue ticket you can only get to Lymington. But only Arriva and Metrobus actually list operators it can be used on, others you have to guess or just attempt and try and argue its valid. Stagecoach's Dayrider Gold ticket can be used throughout all their subsides in the South (not Devon) but thats only because they have an agreement between each other to accept it, as the original plan from Head Office in Scotland was for that not to happen. |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 7, 2013 21:59:16 GMT
The closest we got was the Wanderbus ticket with the National Bus Company but that is long gone. Even the big groups do not have tickets that work across all their subsidiaries - Arriva used to do a National Rover ticket but scrapped it because no one bought it. I doubt anyone knew about it because Arriva never advertised it. In the South East theres an Explorer ticket at the moment which can be used on most bus services within the South East however depending on who you get it with depends on how far outside the area you can get, i.e with a Stagecoach East Kent/East Sussex and South issued ticket you can get all the way to Weymouth on it, however with an Arriva issue ticket you can only get to Lymington. But only Arriva and Metrobus actually list operators it can be used on, others you have to guess or just attempt and try and argue its valid. Stagecoach's Dayrider Gold ticket can be used throughout all their subsides in the South (not Devon) but thats only because they have an agreement between each other to accept it, as the original plan from Head Office in Scotland was for that not to happen. I agree that there is the Explorer Ticket scheme in parts of the South East. Unfortunately the lack of coherent information means it is next to useless except for the geekiest of bus geeks. How an ordinary punter works out whether to buy one or not is anyone's guess. I see one of the group members is trying to construct a website to explain what ticket is valid where. There is the Hertfordshire Intalink Explorer and Essex Saver which are all operator tickets in the respective counties plus some bits beyond. It also seems that Arriva will treat an Intalink Explorer as an Arriva Explorer which will get you to Oxford and Milton Keynes (via Aylesbury). Allegedly you can buy an Explorer on a Network Harlow vehicle which will count as an Arriva ticket (yes I know NH is TGM who are owned by Arriva). One day I will put this to the test by starting on a 505 at Chingford.  There is a similar Explorer North East that is well known and well used and reasonable validity across a big region. That is well advertised and bus companies make appropriate reference to it. Stagecoach do an Explorer North West which is expensive but does stretch right across to Newcastle courtesy of the 685 service. There are obviously schemes in PTE areas and some other counties / towns and cities have multi operator tickets but these can be very hard to dig out. Why on earth bus companies are so utterly hopeless at advertising and really promoting these tickets I do not know. |
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Post by jay38a on Apr 8, 2013 0:00:26 GMT
Its a left over from NBC days, probs explains its anomalies in acceptancy between companies. I can only think of one of the smaller companies that even mention the South East Explorer ticket in any of their publicity, it being Compass Bus. Stagecoach, Arriva and Metrobus have posters in their buses about it but not where its valid.
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