|
Post by bigbaddom1981 on Nov 7, 2013 18:40:06 GMT
Id like to know how many of those single deck routes could be double decked? The D6 is one of my locals its crying out for double deckers. In my view every route should be DD unless there are low bridges or roads that need a very short little bus like the 386 route I don't think many of those routes can actually take deckers, funnily enough. W15 - low bridge Grove Green Road, Leytonstone 235 - ? 170 - low bridge Battersea 316 - resident issues North Kensington(?) C11 - ? 276 - low bridge Fairfield Road, Bow *and* West Ham 214 - low trees Highgate Village 236 - ? 72 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) 507 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 285 - not sure about the Feltham - Teddington section, but the Feltham - Heathrow and Teddington - Kingston sections have deckers over them in the 90 and 281 respectively D6 - can take deckers (regular odd workings under First) 200 - can take deckers (and has 2 scheduled deckers) H98 - can take deckers (regular odd workings) 521 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 355 - can take deckers (regular odd workings at AL) 358 - low bridge Shortlands 33 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) H37 - low bridge Isleworth 202 - can take deckers (regular odd workings, scheduled type during late arrival of new buses) Any help filling in the gaps with the 235/236/281/316/C11 would be appreciated. I think a lot of those routes will have resident issues preventing vehicles of a certain weight or size using the road
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2013 19:43:00 GMT
Out of those routes, only the 200, 202, 235, 285, 289, 316 (if Residental Restriction is approved), 355, 407, D6 and H98 can take double deckers. Double decking is only one way of increasing capacity. As an example Lothian's Volvo 7900 hybrids have a capacity of 89 and next years batch with euro6 apparently will carry 93. I know they are single door but compared to TfLs requirement of 87 capacity proves don't have to have a second deck Im just a traditionalist who loves red double deckers!!!
|
|
|
Post by l1group on Nov 7, 2013 20:14:20 GMT
I don't think many of those routes can actually take deckers, funnily enough. W15 - low bridge Grove Green Road, Leytonstone 235 - ? 170 - low bridge Battersea 316 - resident issues North Kensington(?) C11 - ? 276 - low bridge Fairfield Road, Bow *and* West Ham 214 - low trees Highgate Village 236 - ? 72 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) 507 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 285 - not sure about the Feltham - Teddington section, but the Feltham - Heathrow and Teddington - Kingston sections have deckers over them in the 90 and 281 respectively D6 - can take deckers (regular odd workings under First) 200 - can take deckers (and has 2 scheduled deckers) H98 - can take deckers (regular odd workings) 521 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 355 - can take deckers (regular odd workings at AL) 358 - low bridge Shortlands 33 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) H37 - low bridge Isleworth 202 - can take deckers (regular odd workings, scheduled type during late arrival of new buses) Any help filling in the gaps with the 235/236/285/316/C11 would be appreciated. 235 doesn't have any restrictions as far as I know 285 can take deckers, extremely rare workings have happened as recently as a few months ago 316 apparently has a resident issue with an MP living on a section of the route in North Kensington 316 has had double deckers during the Notting Hill Carnival. But that's an exception, as it by-passed most of the affected area afaik. 521 cannot take double deckers due to the Strand Underpass 507 has had double deckers - when the bendys were pulled off the road, even a Routemaster helped out!
|
|
|
Post by Hassaan on Nov 7, 2013 20:18:50 GMT
235 doesn't have any restrictions as far as I know 285 can take deckers, extremely rare workings have happened as recently as a few months ago 316 apparently has a resident issue with an MP living on a section of the route in North Kensington 316 has had double deckers during the Notting Hill Carnival. But that's an exception, as it by-passed most of the affected area afaik. 521 cannot take double deckers due to the Strand Underpass 507 has had double deckers - when the bendys were pulled off the road, even a Routemaster helped out! I believe the actual issue with the 316 is on Barlby Road by St Charles Hospital, as that is the only bit of the route between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's and White City not already served by double deckers.
|
|
|
Post by LX09FBJ on Nov 7, 2013 20:23:30 GMT
I don't think many of those routes can actually take deckers, funnily enough. W15 - low bridge Grove Green Road, Leytonstone 235 - ? 170 - low bridge Battersea 316 - resident issues North Kensington(?) C11 - ? 276 - low bridge Fairfield Road, Bow *and* West Ham 214 - low trees Highgate Village 236 - ? 72 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) 507 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 285 - not sure about the Feltham - Teddington section, but the Feltham - Heathrow and Teddington - Kingston sections have deckers over them in the 90 and 281 respectively D6 - can take deckers (regular odd workings under First) 200 - can take deckers (and has 2 scheduled deckers) H98 - can take deckers (regular odd workings) 521 - deliberately has single-deckers because of the short-term nature of journeys on the route 355 - can take deckers (regular odd workings at AL) 358 - low bridge Shortlands 33 - weak bridge (Hammersmith) H37 - low bridge Isleworth 202 - can take deckers (regular odd workings, scheduled type during late arrival of new buses) Any help filling in the gaps with the 235/236/285/316/C11 would be appreciated. 235 doesn't have any restrictions as far as I know 285 can take deckers, extremely rare workings have happened as recently as a few months ago 316 apparently has a resident issue with an MP living on a section of the route in North Kensington Most of 235 is covered by school route 635, and ran as double deck when both when it was part of the 237 and when it was introduced in 1996 until 1998, when TGM took over. The 235 needs double decks as a sense of urgency, Most of the time it's full, especially on Sundays. 316 has double decks during Notting Hill Carnival
|
|
|
Post by l1group on Nov 7, 2013 20:48:50 GMT
Most of 235 is covered by school route 635, and ran as double deck when both when it was part of the 237 and when it was introduced in 1996 until 1998, when TGM took over. The 235 needs double decks as a sense of urgency, Most of the time it's full, especially on Sundays. 316 has double decks during Notting Hill Carnival Think they use a slightly diverted routing when they do the Notting Hill Carnival. The 316 is diverted, for a start, they leave White City towards the north on Wood Lane via White City Station, during Carnival. Route 235 - it could theoretically happen, but I'm not sure about the state of the trees at Three Fishes, Sunbury. I think it's fine there, but i'm not 100% sure.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 7, 2013 23:19:52 GMT
316 has had double deckers during the Notting Hill Carnival. But that's an exception, as it by-passed most of the affected area afaik. 521 cannot take double deckers due to the Strand Underpass 507 has had double deckers - when the bendys were pulled off the road, even a Routemaster helped out! I believe the actual issue with the 316 is on Barlby Road by St Charles Hospital, as that is the only bit of the route between Ladbroke Grove Sainsbury's and White City not already served by double deckers. Indeed, I believe Barlby Road is where the offending MP lives - would love to know which one he/she is.
|
|
|
Post by westhamgeezer on Nov 8, 2013 9:54:49 GMT
Think they use a slightly diverted routing when they do the Notting Hill Carnival. The 316 is diverted, for a start, they leave White City towards the north on Wood Lane via White City Station, during Carnival. Route 235 - it could theoretically happen, but I'm not sure about the state of the trees at Three Fishes, Sunbury. I think it's fine there, but i'm not 100% sure. 235 could take Deckers, and probably needs them. 285 again could have them and has seen them in the past, I believe at the last tender it was considered for deckers but to my surprise continued with single deckers. I think that the stats make interesting reading. When looking at the 117 for example, it is quite busy yet only has an x20 min frequency and x30 mins on Sunday. Compare that to other routes (picking one in the same area the 290 which has a x20 min frequency 7 days a week) but carries half the no of passengers which dont make sense. As I think I have said before, the 117 should have an increased frequency and this would help out the busiest section of the 235. There is some questioning over the figures (the H37 was picked out) However what has to be remembered is the length of the route. The H37 is a very short route (6 miles) I believe as is the 9 (5 miles). This needs to be taken into account.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2013 4:14:32 GMT
Yes I found that rather interesting aswell, how routes of the same frequency can differ so widely in patronage, or in reverse, how routes of the same patronage can differ so much in frequency.
|
|
|
Post by Steve80 on Nov 10, 2013 5:16:57 GMT
Yes I found that rather interesting aswell, how routes of the same frequency can differ so widely in patronage, or in reverse, how routes of the same patronage can differ so much in frequency. Yes, I still look at the list with interest and discovering new surprises such as why is the N68 (position 526) is still trundling along with its 30 mins all week frequency, yet routes like the N109 (position 535) apparently carries less passengers and has a much greater frequency. Of course, the N68 is a much longer route and there has been many times when a N109 has left me behind at the stop because its too busy to get on. I would love to see more stats such as the busiest route by region - eg. south east London, south west and so on, the busiest midi route and also the top 10 quieter routes. By the way, the W15 (not W5) is the busiest single deck route.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 10, 2013 9:47:37 GMT
Yes I found that rather interesting aswell, how routes of the same frequency can differ so widely in patronage, or in reverse, how routes of the same patronage can differ so much in frequency. Yes, I still look at the list with interest and discovering new surprises such as why is the N68 (position 526) is still trundling along with its 30 mins all week frequency, yet routes like the N109 (position 535) apparently carries less passengers and has a much greater frequency. Of course, the N68 is a much longer route and there has been many times when a N109 has left me behind at the stop because its too busy to get on. I would love to see more stats such as the busiest route by region - eg. south east London, south west and so on, the busiest midi route and also the top 10 quieter routes. By the way, the W15 (not W5) is the busiest single deck route. I have been adding categories (albeit a bit arbitary in their definition) to my spreadsheet of the data. The busiest Midi route is the 410 - I've assumed a midi route is run with single decks shorter than 10m - followed by the W4, 450, 393 and 192. They all carry more than 2.9m pax p.a. The quietest day route, excluding schools and mobility bus routes, is the 399 which surprised me slightly. I thought it would be the 389. Geography is harder to deal with. I thought about using Boroughs but many routes are allocated to more than one borough because that's where they run. I looked at TfL's borough performance reports to see if they have allocated routes to 1 borough but they don't. Oddly, though, route 5 is not shown under Havering despite it serving Romford! Some routes will be relatively easy to allocate to a quadrant but when you get to the overlap areas like Croydon then it gets very difficult - TfL's quadrant bus maps have Croydon on both the SE and SW Maps.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 10, 2013 14:14:37 GMT
I must stop reading Steve80 's posts. I've gone through my spreadsheet and added a quadrant region against every route. Some I am sure people will quibble with. I have also put some routes as "Central" given all or most of their length is in Zone 1 - examples are the 11, 23, 360 and 507. Rankings based on the 2012/13 data. Top NE route is the 25 Top NW route is the 18 Top SE route is the 12 Top SW route is the 14 Top C route is the 23 Top NE night route is the N29 Top NW night route is the N207 Top SE night route is the N47 Top SW night route is the N155 Top C night route is the N97 Busiest School service is the 698 Taking 100,000 journeys as being "quiet" then the top 15 (there are only 15!) "boring snoring" routes are 1 - 404 2 - 549 3 - 146 4 - R8 5 - 375 6 - 603 7 - 347 8 - 385 9 - R5 10 - 359 11 - R10 12 - H3 13 - W10 14 - 389 15 - 399 School buses, short term shuttle services and mobility bus routes are excluded from the list. In the list the 404 is busiest, 399 is quietest.
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Nov 10, 2013 17:16:39 GMT
I am not surprised of the N155 result as it is basically the night northern line.
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Nov 10, 2013 18:42:21 GMT
I must stop reading Steve80 's posts. I've gone through my spreadsheet and added a quadrant region against every route. Some I am sure people will quibble with. I have also put some routes as "Central" given all or most of their length is in Zone 1 - examples are the 11, 23, 360 and 507. Rankings based on the 2012/13 data. Top NE route is the 25 Top NW route is the 18 Top SE route is the 12 Top SW route is the 14 Top C route is the 23 Top NE night route is the N29 Top NW night route is the N207 Top SE night route is the N47 Top SW night route is the N155 Top C night route is the N97 Busiest School service is the 698 Taking 100,000 journeys as being "quiet" then the top 15 (there are only 15!) "boring snoring" routes are 1 - 404 2 - 549 3 - 146 4 - R8 5 - 375 6 - 603 7 - 347 8 - 385 9 - R5 10 - 359 11 - R10 12 - H3 13 - W10 14 - 389 15 - 399 School buses, short term shuttle services and mobility bus routes are excluded from the list. In the list the 404 is busiest, 399 is quietest. Can I ask what category you put the 109 into as it runs neither into South East or South West. Brixton & Streatham's postcodes are SW rather than SE which would probably class the route more in SW London - my only niggle. No surprise to hear the 410 is the busiest midi-bus route, it's never empty! Looking forward to seeing this spreadsheet.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Nov 10, 2013 19:32:25 GMT
Can I ask what category you put the 109 into as it runs neither into South East or South West. Brixton & Streatham's postcodes are SW rather than SE which would probably class the route more in SW London - my only niggle. No surprise to hear the 410 is the busiest midi-bus route, it's never empty! Looking forward to seeing this spreadsheet. I put N-S routes ending at Croydon into South East. Places which are broadly north or broadly south of Central London are difficult to classify and there are quite a few routes which are hard to deal with. If the 109 was categorised as SW then it would be the top route. Not sure how the spreadsheet can be shared via the group as I have no webspace and I don't think Proboards host files on group (but I might be wrong on that).
|
|