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Post by rambo on Aug 19, 2013 21:06:44 GMT
Does anyone know if there is anyone representing the drivers in the consultation with TFL?
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Post by Steve80 on Aug 19, 2013 21:56:06 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor
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Post by snoggle on Aug 20, 2013 8:47:14 GMT
Does anyone know if there is anyone representing the drivers in the consultation with TFL? There was a short feature on the BBC news last night and they mentioned that the unions had concerns about vulnerable people being left behind. BBC London News
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 20, 2013 13:44:23 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor They can travel using their contactless debit card, if they have one It's not that harsh, if you go abroad you'll find similar systems in place where cash isn't used and you have to buy your ticket at a travel office or similar
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2013 14:19:04 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor They can travel using their contactless debit card, if they have one It's not that harsh, if you go abroad you'll find similar systems in place where cash isn't used and you have to buy your ticket at a travel office or similar I keep my Oyster Card in my wallet ... So chances are if I have lost my oyster card my wallet has gone ... Hence no bankcard or money ... Seems I will just have to drive when back in London
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Post by Steve80 on Aug 20, 2013 16:39:46 GMT
I keep my Oyster Card in my wallet ... So chances are if I have lost my oyster card my wallet has gone ... Hence no bankcard or money ... Seems I will just have to drive when back in London I keep my Oyster separate from my wallet but my bank card isn't contactless - so if my Oyster holder gets stolen I'm stuck, even though I have money. Yes, I use my oystercard holder to store my bank cards in there. I always carry cash as backup. If I lose my oystercard then I still have cash to get home. I used to carry a wallet but I lost it last year on the train (I thought I put it in my pocket but I didn't) but because I used transport a lot, I always kept my oystercard separate from my wallet.
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Post by ServerKing on Aug 20, 2013 17:02:39 GMT
I keep my Oyster separate from my wallet but my bank card isn't contactless - so if my Oyster holder gets stolen I'm stuck, even though I have money. Yes, I use my oystercard holder to store my bank cards in there. I always carry cash as backup. If I lose my oystercard then I still have cash to get home. I used to carry a wallet but I lost it last year on the train (I thought I put it in my pocket but I didn't) but because I used transport a lot, I always kept my oystercard separate from my wallet. Just use the back doors like the Greig City Academy kids do with the 41 I guess it saves TfL more money as they don't have to process all that cash from each bus and have it collected by one of the firms like Loomis, G4S etc to get it sorted out... only thing is will they increase the price of single Oyster journies / journies paid by contactless card?
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Post by rambo on Aug 20, 2013 17:59:37 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor Not having a go here, but theres the problem, loads of 'what ifs'. What if you lose you door key key, do you expect someone to open your door for free? People have to take some responsibilty for thier actions.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 20, 2013 18:11:06 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor They can travel using their contactless debit card, if they have one It's not that harsh, if you go abroad you'll find similar systems in place where cash isn't used and you have to buy your ticket at a travel office or similar There are some rather fundamental differences though. In many places tickets are cheap and are multi-modal with transfers permitted. Some systems have ticket machines at stops or on vehicle and these accept cash so people are not stuck. Other cities have rather lax approaches to ticket enforcement so people just blatantly cheat and don't worry about not having tickets. London's approach is "you must have a ticket but we won't make it easier for you to get one. We will also leave "personality and vulnerability" assessments to drivers." However drivers are paid to drive buses safely not be psychiatrists. The problem with the whole "vulnerability" argument is that there are all sorts of vulnerabilities and with the best will in the world drivers cannot be expected to get it right every time. It is a well known fact that young men are some of the most vulnerable people in terms of risk of attack and injury, whether sober or not. I suspect they would not fit the bill if you asked the average person in the street to describe a vulnerable person - they're more likely to suggest a lone young female, the old or those with mental impairment. I suspect many bus drivers will have had their fair share of "cheek" from young lads and may therefore be far less likely to consider them vulnerable if faced with one unable to present a valid ticket or card once cash fares have gone. Past experience is very likely to colour people's opinions and therefore wrong decisions can be made. Woe betide the poor bus driver and bus company who kick someone off who ends up in trouble - the media will crucify them when the responsibility will sit squarely with TfL and the Mayor / Government (they've set the financial situation which has forced this decision).
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Post by Steve80 on Aug 20, 2013 18:48:08 GMT
I don't agree with this whatsoever. What if someone loses their oyster card? That means they won't be able to travel on the buses at all. There has been numerous times when someone has handed me a lost oystercard or I have found one on the floor Not having a go here, but theres the problem, loads of 'what ifs'. What if you lose you door key key, do you expect someone to open your door for free? People have to take some responsibilty for thier actions. Just call a locksmith I still think tfl are making the wrong decision. Everyone should have the option to pay. Imagine its 5am. You need to get to the park approach bus stop in gipsy hill to get the N3 to brixton. You get on the bus and you realise you left your oystercard at home. You got money but all of a sudden you can't pay on the buses anymore. Unless you have a contactless card then you have two other options - either go home and look for your oyster or do a 15-20 minute walk all the way to West Dulwich Station to get a ticket. How is that fair? This is what will probably happen. Passengers will ask driver to let them on. Some drivers will say yes others will say no. The ones that say yes will possibly do the right thing and give them a slip. But this will makes the journeys a lot slower, and possibly lose tfl some money. The ones that say no will just have to hope the passenger doesn't make a complaint. Hopefully, some passengers will not get in a fit and cause a confrontation with the driver, which will result in delays for all passengers on board. The only good thing out of this is that tfl will save 24 million a year, as well as drivers not needing cash trays But will the passengers and staff really benefit from this?
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Post by M1104 on Aug 20, 2013 19:23:58 GMT
Not having a go here, but theres the problem, loads of 'what ifs'. What if you lose you door key key, do you expect someone to open your door for free? People have to take some responsibilty for thier actions. . The only good thing out of this is that tfl will save 24 million a year Most likely why TfL are planning to implementing it from 2014, what with all the costs of the LTs for 2013 and all the years to come.
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Post by rambo on Aug 21, 2013 15:06:21 GMT
Steve80 said;
Imagine its 5am. You need to get to the park approach bus stop in gipsy hill to get the N3 to brixton. You get on the bus and you realise you left your oystercard at home. You got money but all of a sudden you can't pay on the buses anymore. Unless you have a contactless card then you have two other options - either go home and look for your oyster or do a 15-20 minute walk all the way to West Dulwich Station to get a ticket. How is that fair?
Rambo says;
Imagine it's 5am, I need to go to work, I jump in my car and stop to get petrol, but ive left my wallet behind, does the guy in the petrol station give me my fuel free? Imagine ive left my wallet behind, can I go into the sandwich shop and ask for a free sandwich?
Whilst the 'negitive equity' idea looks good on paper, whit if someone gets on who's already in negitive equity, an arguement starts.
The whole vulnerable person thing?, what if I let a 14 yr old on at 3am, unless i'm droping them to thier front door and make sure they get indoors, I don't see how letting them on the bus free has helped.
The biggest problem with this whole idea will be the drivers, some will let people on free(as they do now) and some will do the job properly.
How do fare paying passengers feel when the bus driver lets someone on free?, I would be extremely p*ssed off!
Can I go to gatwick and say 'my brother in the USA has been taken ill, can I travel free?' Can I go to a train station/ferry terminal/taxi office and say the same thing?
IMO, the whole system has been abused, with the help of the drivers, and TFL need to be firm.
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Post by bigbaddom1981 on Aug 21, 2013 15:57:42 GMT
Steve80 said; Imagine its 5am. You need to get to the park approach bus stop in gipsy hill to get the N3 to brixton. You get on the bus and you realise you left your oystercard at home. You got money but all of a sudden you can't pay on the buses anymore. Unless you have a contactless card then you have two other options - either go home and look for your oyster or do a 15-20 minute walk all the way to West Dulwich Station to get a ticket. How is that fair? Rambo says; Imagine it's 5am, I need to go to work, I jump in my car and stop to get petrol, but ive left my wallet behind, does the guy in the petrol station give me my fuel free? Imagine ive left my wallet behind, can I go into the sandwich shop and ask for a free sandwich? Whilst the 'negitive equity' idea looks good on paper, whit if someone gets on who's already in negitive equity, an arguement starts. The whole vulnerable person thing?, what if I let a 14 yr old on at 3am, unless i'm droping them to thier front door and make sure they get indoors, I don't see how letting them on the bus free has helped. The biggest problem with this whole idea will be the drivers, some will let people on free(as they do now) and some will do the job properly. How do fare paying passengers feel when the bus driver lets someone on free?, I would be extremely p*ssed off! Can I go to gatwick and say 'my brother in the USA has been taken ill, can I travel free?' Can I go to a train station/ferry terminal/taxi office and say the same thing? IMO, the whole system has been abused, with the help of the drivers, and TFL need to be firm. You make an excellent point! I see on a regular basis drivers letting on passengers for free for largely rubbish excuses like the dog ate my ticket! TFL need to make a rule and stick to it, with drivers accountable if they do t follow it. Sadly, for the punter who genuinely has made a mistake, the current system that is abused makes it hard to justify and kind of free journey!
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Post by Steve80 on Aug 22, 2013 2:51:50 GMT
Steve80 said; Imagine its 5am. You need to get to the park approach bus stop in gipsy hill to get the N3 to brixton. You get on the bus and you realise you left your oystercard at home. You got money but all of a sudden you can't pay on the buses anymore. Unless you have a contactless card then you have two other options - either go home and look for your oyster or do a 15-20 minute walk all the way to West Dulwich Station to get a ticket. How is that fair? Rambo says; Imagine it's 5am, I need to go to work, I jump in my car and stop to get petrol, but ive left my wallet behind, does the guy in the petrol station give me my fuel free? Imagine ive left my wallet behind, can I go into the sandwich shop and ask for a free sandwich? Whilst the 'negitive equity' idea looks good on paper, whit if someone gets on who's already in negitive equity, an arguement starts. The whole vulnerable person thing?, what if I let a 14 yr old on at 3am, unless i'm droping them to thier front door and make sure they get indoors, I don't see how letting them on the bus free has helped. The biggest problem with this whole idea will be the drivers, some will let people on free(as they do now) and some will do the job properly. How do fare paying passengers feel when the bus driver lets someone on free?, I would be extremely p*ssed off! Can I go to gatwick and say 'my brother in the USA has been taken ill, can I travel free?' Can I go to a train station/ferry terminal/taxi office and say the same thing? IMO, the whole system has been abused, with the help of the drivers, and TFL need to be firm. Well if you go into a sandwich shop and ask to pay by cash then surely you are able to do so. Same with getting petrol for your car. You should be able to pay by cash. But if tfl gets their way then you will not be able to travel on the buses even if you have the money. No oyster then no travel! Im trying to think of a organisation that you can go into and be refused to use cash to purchase an item. If someone comes up with an answer than we can compare the point I was trying to make I do agree with your other points in general. I also agree with your point regarding vulnerable passengers but it would bother me if I refused a vulnerable passenger and something happens to them. I have a question for you Obviously, if a passenger tries to board your bus without paying then you would refuse them travel. But what if another passenger offers to pay the fare for them. Would you accept the fare?
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Post by marlon101 on Aug 22, 2013 9:06:28 GMT
rambo Nobody is suggesting people get a free ride or be let off the hook in the way, just that they can continue to pay in the age old fashion: with hard currency.
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