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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 17:58:31 GMT
Hi All. Just thought I'd make a thread to see which Vehicle or Vehicle Model people would say has the best kickdown. Everyone will have their opinion/preference so there's no right or wrong suggestion. Maybe if we could all suggest a maximum of 2 Double Deckers and 2 Single Deckers. All from year 2000 and above. Our choices should also be influenced by the vehicles that pull away and mid motion kickdown. My Suggestion would be Model Name - Mercedes Citaro O530 12m Specific Vehicle or Batch - MCL8-17 Model Name - Optare Tempo 12m Specific Vehicle or Batch - OT1-16 Model Name - Alexander Dennis ALX 400 Specific Vehicle or Batch - TA234 Apologies if I've done something wrong or the thread is in the incorrect place.
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Post by LX09FBJ on Jan 13, 2014 19:05:36 GMT
In my view:
Double decks: Metroline TE1098 (LK60AHG) London United SP1-15 (YN56 SPs)
Single decks, can't think of any right now, but Darts/E200s are not the best buses for kickdown.
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Post by jrussa on Jan 13, 2014 20:50:51 GMT
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Post by VPL630 on Jan 13, 2014 21:19:23 GMT
VDL DB300 / Gemini 2 - DW401 Euro 4 E400 - DN33501 (Under First London) it's not as good now Go-Ahead have touched it...
MAN 14.240/Enviro200 - 708 Euro 4 E200 - DML44074
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Post by Hassaan on Jan 13, 2014 21:55:32 GMT
Deckers: Euro 4 E400, ZF mainly but Voith too if available Scania N230UD Singles: Euro 4 E200, Allison Mercedes Citaro, ZF
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Post by vjaska on Jan 13, 2014 22:44:47 GMT
Double Decker:
A Voith B7TL's intelligent kickdown sounds quite beasty, particularly on pre 02 reg ones. BN's VDL DB300's (before BN destroyed them) - I used to hear these kickdown regularly on the 59 & 319 and it sounded amazing.
Single Decker:
Stagecoach London Citaros on the 227 - absolute brutes when revving and kickdown just makes them even better. Former Stagecoach London Super Pointer Darts - ok, they are unfortunately not in London anymore and wern't quick by any means but the kickdown was lovely amongst the beasty sounds of the buses.
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Post by Jack on Jan 13, 2014 23:14:46 GMT
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Post by M1104 on Jan 13, 2014 23:22:31 GMT
Arriva's DW29 at around 02:33 minutes youtu.be/nYfiVNat4CoConnex/Travel London/Abellio's euro2 engined Tridents 9701-38, mainly when on the 3, 157 and 196. DB250 Optare Spectras (SP1-25) that used to be on the 3 from Q (SP2 on the 280 from AL) London General's NV class Volvos B10M, especially the batch that were allocated to New Cross for the 171.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2014 8:51:27 GMT
I do indeed! Still looking to catch a full journey on the 111 with one.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 16, 2014 0:51:23 GMT
My favourite buses for this at the moment are the 6 speed Volvo B7TLs on the 607. They have furious sounding engines, with very short gear ratios. They reach full revs in 4th at 36mph and 5th at around 50mph. They're also prone frequent to downshifting and often double kickdowns, accompanied by a loud steptronic slam. The 6th to 5th downshift is a bit naff - sometimes the engine completely loses torque for 3 or 4 seconds whilst it finds its way into 5th. Example of one being hammered mercilessly between Hayes Grapes and Uxbridge - www.youtube.com/watch?v=00zcaK5282k . The driver appeared to be very keen to get home judging by the extended full acceleration in the first clip. I also quite like the 4 speed Voith box on certain buses - Tridents and the DB300s. As for single deckers, I think the accolade goes to the MAN 14.240s on the 202. Citaros are nice, but the Euro 3 examples sounded better than the current Euro 5ers.
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Post by M1104 on Jan 16, 2014 4:25:53 GMT
It's only a pity the six cylinder engine wasn't standard on the Enviro200s as they would have made interesting kickdown performers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2014 8:18:44 GMT
My favourite buses for this at the moment are the 6 speed Volvo B7TLs on the 607. They have furious sounding engines, with very short gear ratios. They reach full revs in 4th at 36mph and 5th at around 50mph. They're also prone frequent to downshifting and often double kickdowns, accompanied by a loud steptronic slam. The 6th to 5th downshift is a bit naff - sometimes the engine completely loses torque for 3 or 4 seconds whilst it finds its way into 5th. Example of one being hammered mercilessly between Hayes Grapes and Uxbridge - www.youtube.com/watch?v=00zcaK5282k . The driver appeared to be very keen to get home judging by the extended full acceleration in the first clip. I also quite like the 4 speed Voith box on certain buses - Tridents and the DB300s. As for single deckers, I think the accolade goes to the MAN 14.240s on the 202. Citaros are nice, but the Euro 3 examples sounded better than the current Euro 5ers. I Agree with you in regards to B7TL's that run on the 607. I was on board one going the opposite direction and it sounded great. I find these engines better suited to this body. The engines on the B7TL's that run on the 85 (E.g WVL60 - LF52ZPX) to me seem incredibly sluggish. Am I right to assume its a different engine all together?
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Post by M1104 on Jan 16, 2014 10:53:18 GMT
My favourite buses for this at the moment are the 6 speed Volvo B7TLs on the 607. They have furious sounding engines, with very short gear ratios. They reach full revs in 4th at 36mph and 5th at around 50mph. They're also prone frequent to downshifting and often double kickdowns, accompanied by a loud steptronic slam. The 6th to 5th downshift is a bit naff - sometimes the engine completely loses torque for 3 or 4 seconds whilst it finds its way into 5th. Example of one being hammered mercilessly between Hayes Grapes and Uxbridge - www.youtube.com/watch?v=00zcaK5282k . The driver appeared to be very keen to get home judging by the extended full acceleration in the first clip. I also quite like the 4 speed Voith box on certain buses - Tridents and the DB300s. As for single deckers, I think the accolade goes to the MAN 14.240s on the 202. Citaros are nice, but the Euro 3 examples sounded better than the current Euro 5ers. I Agree with you in regards to B7TL's that run on the 607. I was on board one going the opposite direction and it sounded great. I find these engines better suited to this body. The engines on the B7TL's that run on the 85 (E.g WVL60 - LF52ZPX) to me seem incredibly sluggish. Am I right to assume its a different engine all together? The ones on the 85 have had engine swaps as part of their refurbishment, the retrofitted units being the same engine block as before but with euro4 spec'd components and a 250 hp turbo, approx 14% increase over most of London's B7TLs (fitted with 215 hp turbos). However, AF's (and SW's) three speed Volvos seem to have a rather lazy ECU, their four speeders being a bit better. The engine, regardless of their power capabilities, will only do what the ECU settings dictate. The refurbished PVLs, especially the batch from A (r213) and Q (r45) perform a whole lot better. WVL244, the only GAL six speeder with both a good ECU setting and a 'proper' kickdown, would give the 607 Volvos a good run for their money.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 16, 2014 12:58:14 GMT
My favourite buses for this at the moment are the 6 speed Volvo B7TLs on the 607. They have furious sounding engines, with very short gear ratios. They reach full revs in 4th at 36mph and 5th at around 50mph. They're also prone frequent to downshifting and often double kickdowns, accompanied by a loud steptronic slam. The 6th to 5th downshift is a bit naff - sometimes the engine completely loses torque for 3 or 4 seconds whilst it finds its way into 5th. Example of one being hammered mercilessly between Hayes Grapes and Uxbridge - www.youtube.com/watch?v=00zcaK5282k . The driver appeared to be very keen to get home judging by the extended full acceleration in the first clip. I also quite like the 4 speed Voith box on certain buses - Tridents and the DB300s. As for single deckers, I think the accolade goes to the MAN 14.240s on the 202. Citaros are nice, but the Euro 3 examples sounded better than the current Euro 5ers. I Agree with you in regards to B7TL's that run on the 607. I was on board one going the opposite direction and it sounded great. I find these engines better suited to this body. The engines on the B7TL's that run on the 85 (E.g WVL60 - LF52ZPX) to me seem incredibly sluggish. Am I right to assume its a different engine all together? I've had some good rides on the 52 reg batch at AF on the 85 - maybe you were just unlucky in the examples you rode.
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Post by 6HP502C on Jan 16, 2014 14:01:07 GMT
WVL244 is a good bus, but it sounds different to the 607's VWs. No wheezing and it doesn't quite rev up to the full 2200rpm in 1st and 2nd at least. Thus I suspect the VWs will be marginally quicker. I take those Geminins on the N22 when I finish at FW on Sunday nights. I don't notice much difference between the 4 speeders, but some of the 3 speeders are nipper than others. No kickdown to speak of so all very sleepy. The occasional WHV appearance is a treat. I Agree with you in regards to B7TL's that run on the 607. I was on board one going the opposite direction and it sounded great. I find these engines better suited to this body. The engines on the B7TL's that run on the 85 (E.g WVL60 - LF52ZPX) to me seem incredibly sluggish. Am I right to assume its a different engine all together? They're all B7TL engines, it's the transmission component that is different. WVL1-211 have a 3 or 4 speed Voith transmission. The 607's VWs have a 6 speed ZF transmission. WVL212-273 also have the 6 speed ZF transmission, but with the kickdown disabled (bar 244,) so they don't sound nearly as good as the VWs.
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