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Post by snoggle on Jan 23, 2014 15:35:30 GMT
I see in the latest TLB that there is a proposal to extend the 263. It would run on from Holloway Nags Head to Highbury and Islington and then the 4 or 19 to terminate at Highbury Barn. That's quite an interesting proposal and I assume it's to try and relieve the 43 down to Highbury and possibly the 4 and 19 again to Highbury and possibly a stretch of the 393 which does load pretty well on that round the corner link. I assume Metroline have a fair number of spare vehicles that could be used for the extension - probably need about 3 or 4 buses.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 23, 2014 15:49:33 GMT
Would that effect the 19 being considered for NB4L If it was cut back?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 23, 2014 16:38:00 GMT
Would that effect the 19 being considered for NB4L If it was cut back? Goodness me more NB4L speculation. At this rate someone will be proposing NB4Ls for route 399. I assume TfL are confident that the 263 could run to Highbury Barn and the stand still be available for 19s that might need to turn due to late running. I fail to see why the 19 would be curtailed short of Finsbury Park given this has been a key destination of the route for decades. The 4 certainly could not cope with the peak loadings and I imagine the locals would be irate at losing a bus link into the West End.
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Post by Ice Prxnce on Jan 23, 2014 16:42:43 GMT
When I first saw the thread title, I thought it was about extending 263 to Potters Bar lol.
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Post by Green Kitten on Jan 24, 2014 0:10:44 GMT
When I first saw the thread title, I thought it was about extending 263 to Potters Bar lol. If only That would be waay more useful. Not being biased ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 8:04:50 GMT
When I first saw the thread title, I thought it was about extending 263 to Potters Bar lol. If it got extended to Potters Bar garage, there'd be no dead mileage
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 10:54:27 GMT
I see in the latest TLB that there is a proposal to extend the 263. It would run on from Holloway Nags Head to Highbury and Islington and then the 4 or 19 to terminate at Highbury Barn. That's quite an interesting proposal and I assume it's to try and relieve the 43 down to Highbury and possibly the 4 and 19 again to Highbury and possibly a stretch of the 393 which does load pretty well on that round the corner link. I assume Metroline have a fair number of spare vehicles that could be used for the extension - probably need about 3 or 4 buses. Seems a bit of a strange one, why double back on itself to Highbury Barn? Wouldn't Islington be a better objective?
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Post by snoggle on Jan 24, 2014 12:24:17 GMT
I see in the latest TLB that there is a proposal to extend the 263. It would run on from Holloway Nags Head to Highbury and Islington and then the 4 or 19 to terminate at Highbury Barn. That's quite an interesting proposal and I assume it's to try and relieve the 43 down to Highbury and possibly the 4 and 19 again to Highbury and possibly a stretch of the 393 which does load pretty well on that round the corner link. I assume Metroline have a fair number of spare vehicles that could be used for the extension - probably need about 3 or 4 buses. Seems a bit of a strange one, why double back on itself to Highbury Barn? Wouldn't Islington be a better objective? I suspect @mredd is correct in that stand space is possibly a factor. AFAIK there's no spare stand space at the Angel and the stops are cramped full of buses all day. A guess on my part is that TfL may feel that having empty or nearly empty buses turn up at Highbury and Islington for n/b journeys is a good thing in terms of clearing the queues outside the station. It's one of those stops where there is an almost constant flow of people wanting buses.
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Post by vjaska on Jan 24, 2014 13:25:04 GMT
This proposal begs the question:
Could we see more extensions happen in this current climate?
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Post by T.R. on Jan 24, 2014 15:25:46 GMT
Only worry I have is Holloway Road congestion.
Otherwise i'm behind it all the way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 18:22:11 GMT
If they do that, then they may as well re-route the 263 to go via the 4 to FPK and Highbury otherwise those areas loose their once direct connection provided by the 4.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 24, 2014 20:38:15 GMT
Rubbish Idea, seeing as I am now a Archway resident. Although I dont use the routes I do see them everyday and the 4 does provide a very good link between Archway and Holloway as it goes a different direction. So that is a big fail to cut it.
cutting either the 4 or 19 to Highbury Barn is a farse as its in the middle of no where and Finsbury Park is only another 5 mins down the road!
Next up the 43, 271, 393 cope well enough from Holloway to Highbury & Islington.
Next up theres no stand space at highbury & islington so thats just a silly terminus unless the 277 gets extended somewhere The 271 is a route I feel that can benefit from an extension
If they really want to cut the 4 then turn it at Holloway at the exsiting 263 stand would be a better idea atleast it provides a link to holloway still and passengers can change there for routes to Archway but again what will address the issue of the Holloway - Tufnell Park - Archway part which as mentioned above is well used.
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Post by Volvo on Jan 24, 2014 20:48:14 GMT
Oh I forgot about the traffic that can accumulate on Holloway road as it is so thats not a good idea again, next up the 263 suffers from traffic between Archway and Highgate stationa dn that traffic can be very very bad and these two areas highbury to holloway, archway to highgate station will cause the 263 to be very unreliable, right now i dont even thing its thats reliable due to qquite a few traffic hotspots on route especially in the peaks, oh also holloway to archway section in the peaks can be mayhem aswell. So this whole extending to Highbury is a silly idea imo.
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Post by moz on Jan 24, 2014 20:51:49 GMT
This actually makes a lot of sense as it will feed the Overground at High&I from two directions as well as mop up during peaks and daytimes. When I was doing the 19s it wasn't uncommon to have huge numbers of people waiting at stops along Highbury Park and Highbury Grove having been left behind by full buses that would disgorge at Highbury & Islington and I should imagine this has got much worse since the introduction of Overground services. Having a bus start from Highbury Barn would give those left behind a chance to at the very least reach civilisation at High&I as well as make far easier the journey from Highbury on to Holloway Road and Archway (the 4 goes round the houses).
Moz
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Post by snoggle on Jan 24, 2014 21:43:44 GMT
Oh I forgot about the traffic that can accumulate on Holloway road as it is so thats not a good idea again, next up the 263 suffers from traffic between Archway and Highgate stationa dn that traffic can be very very bad and these two areas highbury to holloway, archway to highgate station will cause the 263 to be very unreliable, right now i dont even thing its thats reliable due to qquite a few traffic hotspots on route especially in the peaks, oh also holloway to archway section in the peaks can be mayhem aswell. So this whole extending to Highbury is a silly idea imo. I am not sure why you seem quite so cross. It was impossible to tell who, if anyone, David21 was replying to but he alluded to route 4. There is no suggestion of route 4 being changed. If anything route 4 seems to be having a resurgence given TfL have gently boosted the service levels over the years and made it a daily end to end route having got rid of the old weekend curtailment. Patronage has also grown steadily. I also have no idea where the notion of curtailing the 19 comes from either. If anything London General probably need a bit of help to make sure more buses actually get to Finsbury Park, far too many curtailments at Highbury Barn. On the subject of the 263 the TfL performance stats for the route look exceptionally good for a route that is pretty long. I am not denying there is potential traffic trouble at several spots but Metroline seem to have the operation "off pat" judging from the stats. My experience of using buses between Highbury and the Nags Head is that despite the theoretical high frequency buses bunch badly causing the lead bus to be overloaded with half empty buses behind. The 43 is particularly bad for this. Loads of people "short hop" down the Holloway Rd meaning the lower deck is crammed full of people unable to move and others can't board. The 393's loadings have gone way up - in the most recent 6 years patronage has gone up by more than 50% - but service levels have not really changed meaning those smallish E20D buses can be full on the Holloway Road. I can see why some extra buses starting nearer to Highbury itself could well help unblock some of the bunched loadings. I agree that some care will be needed about properly scheduling an extension to the 263 but Metroline seem to have coped with the Nags Head extension without any issue. There's no reason to suggest they can't properly schedule a run down to Highbury Barn given they run routes on the roads to be served. They'll have the I-Bus data to see where delays arise and can take those into account. I guess the alternative option for doing something with the 263 would be to run it to Camden Town. I suspect the round the corner link would be popular from the Holloway Rd north of the Nags Head. I suspect, though, that traffic on Camden Rd and in Camden Town is worse than heading to Highbury meaning more buses would be needed.
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