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Post by marlon101 on Apr 11, 2014 14:27:40 GMT
Route 160 was stealing focus so I thought I'd set up a thread for it because it is drawing some comment at the moment.
Thought I'd post my own observation of two consecutive 160s running to Hither Green from Fiveways.
What is the solution for this route, beyond the greater operational resilience that would come from operating the route from a garage nearer the line of route? It might be me, but the 492 seems to have improved given that the tender is around the corner, could this be having a knock on effect on the 160?
At least I have noticed that the inter-working of DDs between the 492 and 428 has stopped since the new timetable came in on the 160, though the 428 does benefit from those workings in the AM peaks.
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Post by Ice Prxnce on Apr 11, 2014 14:30:31 GMT
I think there was already a thread about 160... I think it was Metrobus who created it.
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Route 160
Apr 11, 2014 14:33:33 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ice Prxnce on Apr 11, 2014 14:33:33 GMT
160 just needs to be more reliable especially as it just got a new timetable and PVR of 1 increase. There isn't any other garage other than DT who would be able to run 160 or maybe it can be moved to N with light runnings only run from Catford?
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2014 16:47:51 GMT
160 just needs to be more reliable especially as it just got a new timetable and PVR of 1 increase. There isn't any other garage other than DT who would be able to run 160 or maybe it can be moved to N with light runnings only run from Catford? N would most likely be out of the question for a few reasons: 1) the 159 is most likely going to receive LT's either this year or next and something will most likely have to move out of BN to make room for the LT's. N seems to the best place for a displaced BN route & has space too. 2) Whilst Catford to Norwood is not too bad, any bus having to travel to Norwood from Dartford is going to be a serious pain. The A2 helps but then it has to navigate South London traffic beyond Catford.
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Post by marlon101 on Apr 11, 2014 18:51:34 GMT
160 just needs to be more reliable especially as it just got a new timetable and PVR of 1 increase. There isn't any other garage other than DT who would be able to run 160 or maybe it can be moved to N with light runnings only run from Catford? N would most likely be out of the question for a few reasons: 1) the 159 is most likely going to receive LT's either this year or next and something will most likely have to move out of BN to make room for the LT's. N seems to the best place for a displaced BN route & has space too. 2) Whilst Catford to Norwood is not too bad, any bus having to travel to Norwood from Dartford is going to be a serious pain. The A2 helps but then it has to navigate South London traffic beyond Catford. Has only got to reach Sidcup remember. Might be something worth considering if/when Dartford is forced to close...
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Post by vjaska on Apr 11, 2014 20:40:04 GMT
N would most likely be out of the question for a few reasons: 1) the 159 is most likely going to receive LT's either this year or next and something will most likely have to move out of BN to make room for the LT's. N seems to the best place for a displaced BN route & has space too. 2) Whilst Catford to Norwood is not too bad, any bus having to travel to Norwood from Dartford is going to be a serious pain. The A2 helps but then it has to navigate South London traffic beyond Catford. Has only got to reach Sidcup remember. Might be something worth considering if/when Dartford is forced to close... Sorry, Sidcup - I'm used to the word 'Dartford' & the number '160' being together lol. The problem is, the 159 is likely to become an LT route before the possibility of DT closing becoming a reality, meaning that if DT were to close, N would not be an option to use unless CN is reopened and Arriva London South does a reshuffle. Best thing for the route I'm afraid is for Stagecoach or the Metrobus part of Go-Ahead London to take it on. It would be nice to see the 160 at N - for a starters, it's Enviro 400's would should more reliable upon becoming 'T's' and you may get odd workings of VLA's lol.
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Post by marlon101 on Apr 11, 2014 21:38:35 GMT
Has only got to reach Sidcup remember. Might be something worth considering if/when Dartford is forced to close... Sorry, Sidcup - I'm used to the word 'Dartford' & the number '160' being together lol. The problem is, the 159 is likely to become an LT route before the possibility of DT closing becoming a reality, meaning that if DT were to close, N would not be an option to use unless CN is reopened and Arriva London South does a reshuffle. Best thing for the route I'm afraid is for Stagecoach or the Metrobus part of Go-Ahead London to take it on. It would be nice to see the 160 at N - for a starters, it's Enviro 400's would should more reliable upon becoming 'T's' and you may get odd workings of VLA's lol. I do agree that it is extremely unlikely and that in the medium term, re-tendering is much more likely. Metrobus would be an interesting move but a return to Stagecoach would not be unlikely. This evening the service appears to be down a bus. Large gap in service.
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Post by DT 11 on Apr 11, 2014 23:09:44 GMT
Route 160 was stealing focus so I thought I'd set up a thread for it because it is drawing some comment at the moment. Thought I'd post my own observation of two consecutive 160s running to Hither Green from Fiveways. What is the solution for this route, beyond the greater operational resilience that would come from operating the route from a garage nearer the line of route? It might be me, but the 492 seems to have improved given that the tender is around the corner, could this be having a knock on effect on the 160? At least I have noticed that the inter-working of DDs between the 492 and 428 has stopped since the new timetable came in on the 160, though the 428 does benefit from those workings in the AM peaks. I can't comment enough on the 160, the most unreliable bus service I have ever come across and has been the case for 7.5 years. The curtailments to Hither Green may as well become the new terminus, seems to be even more common in the School holidays and peak times the service is just turned left right and centre and imo I think DT just don't care about the route. Plus the amount of single deckers that have appeared on the Route recently is a joke imo. I think double decker routes should not be awarded to low cost operators who cannot provide the required double decker types for dd routes. Out of all the routes in the TFL network operated with double Deckers, the 160 is now officially the route with the most single decker workings. 4024 is on it right now. The route needs to return to it's rightful operator which is Selkent sooner rather than later imo. I personally couldn't care less if Arriva got rid of DT after the 286 goes, would teach the company as a whole to look after their routes better and I'm not even being biased the 160 is actually a joke., 126/162 are two failed DT routes which have become better under MB.
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Route 160
Apr 12, 2014 9:22:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ice Prxnce on Apr 12, 2014 9:22:23 GMT
I wonder if a push came to a shove about the 160, will it be able to go to another operator? If so then TL (Stagecoach) could probably be likely as they ran the route well and Catford Bridge isn't far from them. 273 could move to TB to make space for 160.
But then again, I can't see DT closing especially as they have recently retained the 428 and B12 and there would be no-where else to move those routes. They have a few routes like 492 and B13 coming up for tender soon aswell.
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Route 160
Apr 12, 2014 9:41:42 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 9:41:42 GMT
I wonder if a push came to a shove about the 160, will it be able to go to another operator? If so then TL (Stagecoach) could probably be likely as they ran the route well and Catford Bridge isn't far from them. 273 could move to TB to make space for 160. But then again, I can't see DT closing especially as they have recently retained the 428 and B12 and there would be no-where else to move those routes. They have a few routes like 492 and B13 coming up for tender soon aswell. I don't think TfL contracted routes are forming much of a priority for Arriva KtS south of the river. My reasons are all the emphasis is on improving Northfleet routes and buses. 414,480,490,495,498,499,477 have all received new buses and slightly improved timetables in some cases. Huge investment under way around Ebbsfleet will need at least two new routes. Now looking ahead, NF will run out of space. DT is the only other option. So i predict a gradual exit from TfL work for DT. GY could easily become TGM.
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Post by sid on Apr 12, 2014 9:53:36 GMT
I wonder if a push came to a shove about the 160, will it be able to go to another operator? If so then TL (Stagecoach) could probably be likely as they ran the route well and Catford Bridge isn't far from them. 273 could move to TB to make space for 160. But then again, I can't see DT closing especially as they have recently retained the 428 and B12 and there would be no-where else to move those routes. They have a few routes like 492 and B13 coming up for tender soon aswell. I wonder how much worse the 160 has to get before its moved to another operator? Either Stagecoach from TL or Go Ahead from MB would seem the obvious alternatives.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 12, 2014 10:14:50 GMT
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Post by Ice Prxnce on Apr 12, 2014 10:25:26 GMT
I wonder if a push came to a shove about the 160, will it be able to go to another operator? If so then TL (Stagecoach) could probably be likely as they ran the route well and Catford Bridge isn't far from them. 273 could move to TB to make space for 160. But then again, I can't see DT closing especially as they have recently retained the 428 and B12 and there would be no-where else to move those routes. They have a few routes like 492 and B13 coming up for tender soon aswell. I wonder how much worse the 160 has to get before its moved to another operator? Either Stagecoach from TL or Go Ahead from MB would seem the obvious alternatives. Stagecoach would be much better and 160 would be back with the old "TL DD' Routes gang"
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Route 160
Apr 12, 2014 10:30:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ice Prxnce on Apr 12, 2014 10:30:21 GMT
No, that is a bad idea. 160 is useful and provides a more shorter link between Catford and Eltham alongside 124 (but that route seems to go round and round). 160 just needs to be more reliable and if DT can't achieve that then they might aswell give it to Stagecoach who can. Judging from LVF, there's one SD (4005) on the route which is not helpful especially for a route that just got a PVR increase.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2014 10:44:48 GMT
Route 160 was stealing focus so I thought I'd set up a thread for it because it is drawing some comment at the moment. Thought I'd post my own observation of two consecutive 160s running to Hither Green from Fiveways. What is the solution for this route, beyond the greater operational resilience that would come from operating the route from a garage nearer the line of route? It might be me, but the 492 seems to have improved given that the tender is around the corner, could this be having a knock on effect on the 160? At least I have noticed that the inter-working of DDs between the 492 and 428 has stopped since the new timetable came in on the 160, though the 428 does benefit from those workings in the AM peaks. I can't comment enough on the 160, the most unreliable bus service I have ever come across and has been the case for 7.5 years. The curtailments to Hither Green may as well become the new terminus, seems to be even more common in the School holidays and peak times the service is just turned left right and centre and imo I think DT just don't care about the route. Plus the amount of single deckers that have appeared on the Route recently is a joke imo. I think double decker routes should not be awarded to low cost operators who cannot provide the required double decker types for dd routes. Out of all the routes in the TFL network operated with double Deckers, the 160 is now officially the route with the most single decker workings. 4024 is on it right now. The route needs to return to it's rightful operator which is Selkent sooner rather than later imo. I personally couldn't care less if Arriva got rid of DT after the 286 goes, would teach the company as a whole to look after their routes better and I'm not even being biased the 160 is actually a joke., 126/162 are two failed DT routes which have become better under MB. Surprised to see the 160 is a low frequency route - but be careful what you wish for Arriva Kent Thameside rank higher than both Metrobus and Selkent in the latest TfL low frequency performance reports here :- www.tfl.gov.uk/cdn/static/cms/documents/quarterly-frequency-on-time.pdfSo why would TfL take action against the company ranked 3rd of 21? PS - can you please show me the report that makes the 160 "Officially the route with the most single decker workings" - from my experience Metrobus are not too hot on this themselves. Not having seen the amended contract ... who is to say that the additional vehicle on the 160 is not officially a single deck?
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