Route 450 Hillcrest Estate campaign

[danorak]

Here's a slightly confused article from the South London Press about residents of the Hillcrest Estate in Crystal Palace wanting a more regular service. Any thoughts? References to the 202 are a bit off-beam but it at least explains to me how the 931 has survived.

www.southlondonpress.co.uk/news.cfm?id=15709&headline=One%20bus%20a%20week%20%E2%80%98not%20enough%E2%80%99


TRANSPORT bosses are being urged to give residents on a South London estate a bus route to stop them feeling cut off.

There are about 500 homes on the Hillcrest Estate in Sydenham. Its residents are currently only served by route 202, which runs a limited service on Fridays between Blackheath and Crystal Palace.

However, residents want a daily service, which they said would be a lifeline to many of those who do not have a car and have to rely on public transport.

They said the 450 route, which runs between West Croydon Bus Station and Bell Green shopping centre in Sydenham, could incorporate a stop in High Level Drive on the estate.

The 202 bus route, which has operated for two years, has a designated estate stop in High Level Drive which residents said could be used if a daily service was established.

They have written to Transport for London (TfL) asking for the 450 to be extended and are setting up a petition.

Resident Margaret Martin, who has lived on the estate since the 1980s, said: “There are a lot of elderly people on this estate and many don’t have cars so they rely on public transport to get out. We used to have a council bus on Wednesdays but this was stopped because of the cuts.

“It has meant we only have one day per week when a bus comes to the estate but this isn’t enough. It’s a long walk to the nearest bus stop and for those who find it difficult to walk it’s not easy.

A daily bus service would improve this estate no end, and the 450 which runs between two major shopping areas would be ideal.

“I just hope TfL listens and takes our concerns on board.”

The residents have been supported by their previous three ward councillors, including Liam Curran, who have written to TfL asking for a daily bus service. Labour candidate Mr Curran, restanding for election in Sydenham ward, said: “Hillcrest is a nice estate, but on a steep hill on one of the highest parts of London.

“A bus service to the 500 or so homes in the area would make a big difference to residents’ lives.

“At the moment there is only one bus a week, which is the sort of service you might expect in the Shetland Isles but not in inner London.”

A Transport for London spokesman said: “We can confirm we have received a request from the local residents of Hillcrest Estate which we will now review.”

[Deleted]

Worth noting there are stops for the 122 and 450 about 5 minutes walk away from the estate.

[snoggle]

I would have thought the simplest answer for elderly residents was to run a little shuttle service to and from Crystal Palace serving those little loops that the 931 does at the Kingswood Estate and High Level Drive. The 931 could be removed. Even if it only ran hourly M-S shopping hours it would be big improvement over what they have now. A quick look at a map shows that the two estates are not outside the 400m walk to a stop criteria so even a shuttle might be hard to justify.

*However* a Google Streetview wander round both of the 931's Sydenham loops shows a lot of housing / flats and reasonable roads to get round so I think I can see why people are complaining. Other places with sort of density do get regular buses serving them. It seems a bit odd that these areas seem to have been missed when it comes to a direct bus link.

[Deleted]

Route 931 used to only stop at the 450 stops just outside the estate, but then TfL re-routed it (2011 I think) to serve the whole estate. Its not really a massive estate, but Route 931 has its own bus stop in there (Seeley Drive Shops) but also stops on a hail and ride basis.

Many time i've ridden Route 931 and every time its got stuck in the estate due to parked cars and with some tight turns also. A few times it had to wait for residents to actually move their cars.

But 100% a full time service would not be viable or likely feasible

[danorak]

May 21, 2014 16:28:27 GMT snoggle said:

I would have thought the simplest answer for elderly residents was to run a little shuttle service to and from Crystal Palace serving those little loops that the 931 does at the Kingswood Estate and High Level Drive. The 931 could be removed. Even if it only ran hourly M-S shopping hours it would be big improvement over what they have now. A quick look at a map shows that the two estates are not outside the 400m walk to a stop criteria so even a shuttle might be hard to justify.

*However* a Google Streetview wander round both of the 931's Sydenham loops shows a lot of housing / flats and reasonable roads to get round so I think I can see why people are complaining. Other places with sort of density do get regular buses serving them. It seems a bit odd that these areas seem to have been missed when it comes to a direct bus link.

Having had a similar virtual stroll today, Hillcrest Estate does look natural bus territory although the comparisons in the article with the Shetland Islands are fairly ludicrous. Maybe a job for the 356 by turning left out of Wells Park Road and running via Sydenham Hill and Westwood Hill to terminate at the Hillcrest Estate?

[snoggle]

May 21, 2014 16:55:10 GMT danorak said:

May 21, 2014 16:28:27 GMT snoggle said:

I would have thought the simplest answer for elderly residents was to run a little shuttle service to and from Crystal Palace serving those little loops that the 931 does at the Kingswood Estate and High Level Drive. The 931 could be removed. Even if it only ran hourly M-S shopping hours it would be big improvement over what they have now. A quick look at a map shows that the two estates are not outside the 400m walk to a stop criteria so even a shuttle might be hard to justify.

*However* a Google Streetview wander round both of the 931's Sydenham loops shows a lot of housing / flats and reasonable roads to get round so I think I can see why people are complaining. Other places with sort of density do get regular buses serving them. It seems a bit odd that these areas seem to have been missed when it comes to a direct bus link.

Having had a similar virtual stroll today, Hillcrest Estate does look natural bus territory although the comparisons in the article with the Shetland Islands are fairly ludicrous. Maybe a job for the 356 by turning left out of Wells Park Road and running via Sydenham Hill and Westwood Hill to terminate at the Hillcrest Estate?

I did wonder about the 356 but I am not familiar with it so don't know how much travel there is on the existing loop round to Kirkdale. I suspect locals want a bus that serves Crystal Palace and Sydenham if that was possible.

[danorak]

May 21, 2014 17:30:55 GMT snoggle said:

May 21, 2014 16:55:10 GMT danorak said:

Having had a similar virtual stroll today, Hillcrest Estate does look natural bus territory although the comparisons in the article with the Shetland Islands are fairly ludicrous. Maybe a job for the 356 by turning left out of Wells Park Road and running via Sydenham Hill and Westwood Hill to terminate at the Hillcrest Estate?

I did wonder about the 356 but I am not familiar with it so don't know how much travel there is on the existing loop round to Kirkdale. I suspect locals want a bus that serves Crystal Palace and Sydenham if that was possible.

Certainly it's a flawed answer but I'm unable to think of another one that would be cost neutral - it's hard to justify an extension of another route from Crystal Palace to somewhere which is realistically quite close to existing services. The 356 seems to be primarily a feeder to other routes, lacking major traffic objectives of its own - if these are all elderly residents then there's no cost penalty in changing buses as they should all have Freedom Passes!

[bengady3]

202 and 356 go nearby when you climb the hill to Canbury Mews stop and 122 and 450 is like 2 minutes away and 931 serves aswell

[bengady3]

Its like Sydenham Hill Estate really close to me Route 363 serves the top and 202 and 356 serve the bottom

[vjaska]

The 202 & 450 are the probably the worst of the Crystal Palace routes to divert there - then ideal route would be the 322 but as has been said already, the cost probably wouldn't justify such an extension.

[overgroundcommuter]

May 21, 2014 16:55:10 GMT danorak said:

May 21, 2014 16:28:27 GMT snoggle said:

I would have thought the simplest answer for elderly residents was to run a little shuttle service to and from Crystal Palace serving those little loops that the 931 does at the Kingswood Estate and High Level Drive. The 931 could be removed. Even if it only ran hourly M-S shopping hours it would be big improvement over what they have now. A quick look at a map shows that the two estates are not outside the 400m walk to a stop criteria so even a shuttle might be hard to justify.

*However* a Google Streetview wander round both of the 931's Sydenham loops shows a lot of housing / flats and reasonable roads to get round so I think I can see why people are complaining. Other places with sort of density do get regular buses serving them. It seems a bit odd that these areas seem to have been missed when it comes to a direct bus link.

Having had a similar virtual stroll today, Hillcrest Estate does look natural bus territory although the comparisons in the article with the Shetland Islands are fairly ludicrous. Maybe a job for the 356 by turning left out of Wells Park Road and running via Sydenham Hill and Westwood Hill to terminate at the Hillcrest Estate?

Then you'd have part of Sydenham Hill without a direct bus service to Forest Hill, for which the 356 was intended to serve without having to use the 363 to Lordship Lane, then change.  

[Deleted]

After reading the article in full, there appears to be alot of inaccurate information, an example being Route 931 has been referred to as Route 202. Seems that a lack of research was undertaken.

[Deleted]

Is it such a bad idea to keep the 931? Or indeed 'mobility' routes in general? Their main purpose might now have been superceeded, but they still provided links and connectivity along roads and between towns/areas that couldnt or didn't have a more regular service.

The other option, though one that has fallen out of favour in London over the last 30 years, is to take a regular bus route and divert the occasional journey into and back out of the estate. Surely this would prove the cheapest option