Route 323 /364

[Deleted]

Started this new thread to discuss the up coming tenders on routes 323 and 364 as they seem to be generating a fair bit of interest. 

I personally discounted Arriva but as others pointed out route 323 could be run by DX or AE.  I think possibly CT Plus or Tower could go after the route.   I think GAL SI garage is full?

As for 364 I wouldn't rule out Stagecoach BK (With a reshuffle) or Arriva DX. 

[ThinLizzy]

Jun 16, 2014 19:50:09 GMT @dan said:

Started this new thread to discuss the up coming tenders on routes 323 and 364 as they seem to be generating a fair bit of interest. 

I personally discounted Arriva but as others pointed out route 323 could be run by DX or AE.  I think possibly CT Plus or Tower could go after the route.   I think GAL SI garage is full?

As for 364 I wouldn't rule out Stagecoach BK (With a reshuffle) or Arriva DX. 

As I just mentioned in the Arriva discussion about the 323, Stagecoach certainly have a advantage for the 323 when it comes to staff transportation costs, that's not to say somebody else may be able to operate it cheaper on overall staffing costs

The 364 to Stagecoach would be more interesting, how ever it could easily be operated from RM instead of shifting something out of BK (part 5 to WH or 145 to RM for example or 103 to RM, part 5 to NS)

I'm not sure how much room there is at DX, but perhaps 364 to Arriva?

[snoggle]

Jun 16, 2014 19:50:09 GMT @dan said:

Started this new thread to discuss the up coming tenders on routes 323 and 364 as they seem to be generating a fair bit of interest. 

I personally discounted Arriva but as others pointed out route 323 could be run by DX or AE.  I think possibly CT Plus or Tower could go after the route.   I think GAL SI garage is full?

As for 364 I wouldn't rule out Stagecoach BK (With a reshuffle) or Arriva DX. 

# La la la

Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting? Why are we waiting?

# La la la

Anyway the 323 - Tower Transit, Arriva, CT Plus, Stagecoach, Docklands Buses must all be in the running.
364 - Blue Triangle, Stagecoach, Arriva are the obvious contenders. Outside chance of Tower Transit or CT Plus bidding - assumes access to Ilford / Dagenham via A12 / A406 / A13 for garage / positioning runs.

I wonder if the 364 is mired in a difficult decision making process between using displaced double deckers from Arriva or Go Ahead (route 453 enviros later this year) vs new hybrid single deckers bid as the base option? Mad, wild speculation on my part but double deckers are badly needed and there are opportunities to convert it relatively cheaply.

[Eastlondoner62]

The 323 is probably fine where it is, but We can probably say TT, Arriva and CT plus will all be likely contenders. It does pass WH and I think it's current buses will be fine for another contract. Would be interesting to see the route With another operator though.

For route 364, I think Arriva DX have to be in the running, or Stagecoach at RM or BK (preferably RM in order to prevent BK needing a reshuffle). I would like to see Arriva ordering Citaro Ks for the Route, would bring an interesting twist in the tale. The service currently hasn't been the best under GAL, but I guess a good bid can work around that. But if it was going to another operator with new buses, I think it will be safe to say Cascades will be used for the first few months as I doubt the manufacturer will be able to get these buses ready with such short notice.

[snoggle]

Jun 16, 2014 20:47:26 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

The 323 is probably fine where it is, but We can probably say TT, Arriva and CT plus will all be likely contenders. It does pass WH and I think it's current buses will be fine for another contract. Would be interesting to see the route With another operator though.

For route 364, I think Arriva DX have to be in the running, or Stagecoach at RM or BK (preferably RM in order to prevent BK needing a reshuffle). I would like to see Arriva ordering Citaro Ks for the Route, would bring an interesting twist in the tale. The service currently hasn't been the best under GAL, but I guess a good bid can work around that. But if it was going to another operator with new buses, I think it will be safe to say Cascades will be used for the first few months as I doubt the manufacturer will be able to get these buses ready with such short notice.

Citaro Ks would be nice but far too small for the volumes of people on that route. The awkward seating and buggy area layout really don't help. The route needs long single decks or ideally double decks to give it plenty of capacity to cater for growth.

As an aside I see another Citaro K was spotted with Go North East a few days ago (I saw a photo of it on Flickr).

[joefrombow]

For the 323 solos would do just fine the route very rarely carries many passengers beyond Devon's Road towards Canning Town or beyond ProLogis park towards Mile End to warrant a 10.2m Vehicle in my opinion as for Stagecoach they operate the route fairly well same as First did I think its more than likely to stay with them .

[jrussa]

I wonder if double decker buses could manage Granville Road, Westwood Road and the narrow Reede Road.

[mondraker275]

I took the 323 quite a lot full route quite regularly in the last year. I would not be surprised if TfL are looking to increase the frequency for the 323. At the moment there are no serious overcrowding issues, but with Bow school having a new school near Twelvetrees/Bromley by Bow, and also the increased New Housing developments in Tower Hamlets. On the other hand, 'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence.

[DT 11]

Jun 17, 2014 8:21:52 GMT mondraker275 said:

I took the 323 quite a lot full route quite regularly in the last year. I would not be surprised if TfL are looking to increase the frequency for the 323. At the moment there are no serious overcrowding issues, but with Bow school having a new school near Twelvetrees/Bromley by Bow, and also the increased New Housing developments in Tower Hamlets. On the other hand, 'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence.

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the School Run.

Also regards to "'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence."

Well look at the 343... Had to make the TV before anything was done...

I wonder how many more routes suffer from severe overcrowding that need increases or double deckers. One thing I find is quite silly at the moment is quite a few routes that have been given increases were done shortly after the contract renewals... or mid contract.

[Deleted]

Jun 17, 2014 8:29:20 GMT DT 11 said:

Jun 17, 2014 8:21:52 GMT mondraker275 said:

I took the 323 quite a lot full route quite regularly in the last year. I would not be surprised if TfL are looking to increase the frequency for the 323. At the moment there are no serious overcrowding issues, but with Bow school having a new school near Twelvetrees/Bromley by Bow, and also the increased New Housing developments in Tower Hamlets. On the other hand, 'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence.

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the School Run.

Also regards to "'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence."

Well look at the 343... Had to make the TV before anything was done...

I wonder how many more routes suffer from severe overcrowding that need increases or double deckers. One thing I find is quite silly at the moment is quite a few routes that have been given increases were done shortly after the contract renewals... or mid contract.

There's two low bridges along the 323 so I doubt double-decking is an option.

[DT 11]

Jun 17, 2014 8:35:44 GMT @mredd said:

Jun 17, 2014 8:29:20 GMT DT 11 said:

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the School Run.

Also regards to "'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence."

Well look at the 343... Had to make the TV before anything was done...

I wonder how many more routes suffer from severe overcrowding that need increases or double deckers. One thing I find is quite silly at the moment is quite a few routes that have been given increases were done shortly after the contract renewals... or mid contract.

There's two low bridges along the 323 so I doubt double-decking is an option.

Full Sized 12m Single deckers is an option.

[snoggle]

Jun 17, 2014 8:29:20 GMT DT 11 said:

Jun 17, 2014 8:21:52 GMT mondraker275 said:

I took the 323 quite a lot full route quite regularly in the last year. I would not be surprised if TfL are looking to increase the frequency for the 323. At the moment there are no serious overcrowding issues, but with Bow school having a new school near Twelvetrees/Bromley by Bow, and also the increased New Housing developments in Tower Hamlets. On the other hand, 'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence.

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the School Run.

Also regards to "'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence."

Well look at the 343... Had to make the TV before anything was done...

I wonder how many more routes suffer from severe overcrowding that need increases or double deckers. One thing I find is quite silly at the moment is quite a few routes that have been given increases were done shortly after the contract renewals... or mid contract.

Hang on a minute. TfL tried to improve the 343 by adding more and more peak extra buses so you can't say they did nothing. The issue was that what they did was either not operable reliably by Abellio or that demand growth simply outstripped the capacity. Now I've no idea what the cause was but to say TfL did nothing is not correct - they tried to deal with the problem at the minimum cost. The 136 extension is clearly a big step up and has probably cost a small fortune and deprived other routes from improvements given the finite bus contract budget.

There are undoubtedly plenty of routes with capacity issues but whether they are critical enough to warrant attention is the question. The fact that changes coincide with retendering or QIC extensions is because there is a competitive element at those times which gives TfL a chance to get better value for money.

In terms of schools and hospital expansion / changes then TfL can only respond if it is told about changes. It is on the record that the NHS reorganisations are not readily communicated with TfL and the NHS does not have the data that TfL need to evaluate how to serve hospitals better. As so many schools are now independent there are no easy ways for TfL and schools to communicate. The whole planning and communication process between councils / TfL / schools / the NHS is dysfunctional and I think all the bodies understand that but they all want different things from the process and to spend no money doing it! I understand some different ways of doing things are being considered / trialled but it'll be a while until anyone knows if they work. It is easy to be an "armchair critic" but the London Assembly's work has highlighted where some of the problems are and that info is in the public domain. Meanwhile, and boring comment alert, it still boils down to money and TfL have less and less of it for bus changes.

[DT 11]

Jun 17, 2014 8:53:39 GMT snoggle said:

Jun 17, 2014 8:29:20 GMT DT 11 said:

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the School Run.

Also regards to "'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence."

Well look at the 343... Had to make the TV before anything was done...

I wonder how many more routes suffer from severe overcrowding that need increases or double deckers. One thing I find is quite silly at the moment is quite a few routes that have been given increases were done shortly after the contract renewals... or mid contract.

Hang on a minute. TfL tried to improve the 343 by adding more and more peak extra buses so you can't say they did nothing. The issue was that what they did was either not operable reliably by Abellio or that demand growth simply outstripped the capacity. Now I've no idea what the cause was but to say TfL did nothing is not correct - they tried to deal with the problem at the minimum cost. The 136 extension is clearly a big step up and has probably cost a small fortune and deprived other routes from improvements given the finite bus contract budget.

There are undoubtedly plenty of routes with capacity issues but whether they are critical enough to warrant attention is the question. The fact that changes coincide with retendering or QIC extensions is because there is a competitive element at those times which gives TfL a chance to get better value for money.

In terms of schools and hospital expansion / changes then TfL can only respond if it is told about changes. It is on the record that the NHS reorganisations are not readily communicated with TfL and the NHS does not have the data that TfL need to evaluate how to serve hospitals better. As so many schools are now independent there are no easy ways for TfL and schools to communicate. The whole planning and communication process between councils / TfL / schools / the NHS is dysfunctional and I think all the bodies understand that but they all want different things from the process and to spend no money doing it! I understand some different ways of doing things are being considered / trialled but it'll be a while until anyone knows if they work. It is easy to be an "armchair critic" but the London Assembly's work has highlighted where some of the problems are and that info is in the public domain. Meanwhile, and boring comment alert, it still boils down to money and TfL have less and less of it for bus changes.

The 343 PVR was increased from 19 to 23 in 2011 when the contract was renewed. So you have a point.

The only extra increase added was in September 2013 when 1 Extra AM peak bus was added making the PVR 24.

[vjaska]

Jun 17, 2014 4:12:55 GMT jrussa said:

I wonder if double decker buses could manage Granville Road, Westwood Road and the narrow Reede Road.

I checked out all three roads on google maps and it looks deckers would be fine on all three roads - Reede Road was the narrowest one but does it parking spaces fully on the pavement so enough room to pass by other vehicles on the road itself.

[smoothcriminal]

Jun 17, 2014 8:29:20 GMT DT 11 said:

Jun 17, 2014 8:21:52 GMT mondraker275 said:

I took the 323 quite a lot full route quite regularly in the last year. I would not be surprised if TfL are looking to increase the frequency for the 323. At the moment there are no serious overcrowding issues, but with Bow school having a new school near Twelvetrees/Bromley by Bow, and also the increased New Housing developments in Tower Hamlets. On the other hand, 'Tfl' and 'forward thinking' dont usually appear in the same sentence.

Could introduce a Double decker journey on it for the school run

no chance